Originally Posted by Bwana:
Once again, don't come in this thread with some kind of political agenda, or you will be shown the door. If you want to go that route, there is a thread about this in DC.
Originally Posted by Dartgod:
People, there is a lot of good information in this thread, let's try to keep the petty bickering to a minimum.
We all have varying opinions about the impact of this, the numbers, etc. We will all never agree with each other. But we can all keep it civil.
Thanks!
Click here for the original OP:
Spoiler!
Apparently the CoronaVirus can survive on a inanimate objects, such as door knobs, for 9 days.
California coronavirus case could be first spread within U.S. community, CDC says
By SOUMYA KARLAMANGLA, JACLYN COSGROVE
FEB. 26, 2020 8:04 PM
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is investigating what could be the first case of novel coronavirus in the United States involving a patient in California who neither recently traveled out of the country nor was in contact with someone who did.
“At this time, the patient’s exposure is unknown. It’s possible this could be an instance of community spread of COVID-19, which would be the first time this has happened in the United States,” the CDC said in a statement. “Community spread means spread of an illness for which the source of infection is unknown. It’s also possible, however, that the patient may have been exposed to a returned traveler who was infected.”
The individual is a resident of Solano County and is receiving medical care in Sacramento County, according to the state Department of Public Health.
The CDC said the “case was detected through the U.S. public health system — picked up by astute clinicians.”
Officials at UC Davis Medical Center expanded on what the federal agency might have meant by that in an email sent Wednesday, as reported by the Davis Enterprise newspaper.
The patient arrived at UC Davis Medical Center from another hospital Feb. 19 and “had already been intubated, was on a ventilator, and given droplet protection orders because of an undiagnosed and suspected viral condition,” according to an email sent by UC Davis officials that was obtained by the Davis Enterprise.
The staff at UC Davis requested COVID-19 testing by the CDC, but because the patient didn’t fit the CDC’s existing criteria for the virus, a test wasn’t immediately administered, according to the email. The CDC then ordered the test Sunday, and results were announced Wednesday. Hospital administrators reportedly said in the email that despite these issues, there has been minimal exposure at the hospital because of safety protocols they have in place.
A UC Davis Health spokesperson declined Wednesday evening to share the email with The Times.
Since Feb. 2, more than 8,400 returning travelers from China have entered California, according to the state health department. They have been advised to self-quarantine for 14 days and limit interactions with others as much as possible, officials said.
“This is a new virus, and while we are still learning about it, there is a lot we already know,” Dr. Sonia Angell, director of the California Department of Public Health, said in a statement. “We have been anticipating the potential for such a case in the U.S., and given our close familial, social and business relationships with China, it is not unexpected that the first case in the U.S. would be in California.”
It is not clear how the person became infected, but public health workers could not identify any contacts with people who had traveled to China or other areas where the virus is widespread. That raises concern that the virus is spreading in the United States, creating a challenge for public health officials, experts say.
“It’s the first signal that we could be having silent transmission in the community,” said Lawrence Gostin, director of the World Health Organization Collaborating Center on National and Global Health Law. “It probably means there are many more cases out there, and it probably means this individual has infected others, and now it’s a race to try to find out who that person has infected.”
On Tuesday, the CDC offered its most serious warning to date that the United States should expect and prepare for the coronavirus to become a more widespread health issue.
“Ultimately, we expect we will see coronavirus spread in this country,” said Nancy Messonnier, director of the CDC’s National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases. “It’s not so much a question of if, but a question of when.”
According to the CDC’s latest count Wednesday morning, 59 U.S. residents have tested positive for the new strain of coronavirus — 42 of whom are repatriated citizens from a Diamond Princess cruise. That number has grown by two since Messonnier’s last count Tuesday, although the CDC was not immediately available to offer details on the additional cases.
More than 82,000 cases of coronavirus have been reported globally, and more than 2,700 people have died, with the majority in mainland China, the epicenter of the outbreak.
But public health leaders have repeatedly reminded residents that the health risk from the novel coronavirus to the general public remains low.
“While COVID-19 has a high transmission rate, it has a low mortality rate,” the state Department of Public Health said in a statement Wednesday. “From the international data we have, of those who have tested positive for COVID-19, approximately 80% do not exhibit symptoms that would require hospitalization. There have been no confirmed deaths related to COVID-19 in the United States to date.”
CDC officials have also warned that although the virus is likely to spread in U.S. communities, the flu still poses a greater risk.
Gostin said the news of potential silent transmission does not eliminate the possibility of containing the virus in the U.S. and preventing an outbreak.
“There are few enough cases that we should at least try,” he said. “Most of us are not optimistic that that will be successful, but we’re still in the position to try.”
Originally Posted by Bearcat:
Why didn't people take it the first go around?
- Supposed fear of long term side effects
- Vaccines being more(?) dangerous than what it's preventing
- Do the really work at all
- Youtube doctors
- People die everyday, who cares if they die from this thing (while simultaneously caring deeply about the minuscule chance of dying from the vaccine)
....other reasons?
Which of those reasons goes away with another pandemic, considering as you just said, the technology had already been in development for decades? And add to it, didn't die last time.
Hell, you just quoted Daface to say we should be afraid of the vaccines killing people, which his hilariously terrible math... if you still aren't convinced they're safe 2 years later, well, just multiply that by a 150 million people.
Fewer people will take them because Dunning Kruger + confirmation bias is a hell of a drug.
Depending on how many years until the next pandemic, I would think these 3 could be somewhat addressed:
- Supposed fear of long term side effects
If the next pandemic is, say, 20 years from now, that would be a lot better long term data than the 2 years we currently have.
- Vaccines being more(?) dangerous than what it's preventing
Again, in 20 years mRNA technology and testing damn well better be more tested. Also, depending on what it is preventing (i.e. something more serious than what COVID-19 turned out to be)...more people might find the risk/reward more palatable. - Do the really work at all
Again, 20 years more of research will undoubtedly help.
Also, I didn't quote DaFace to say we should be afraid of the vaccines killing people, but rather to say "oh well" if he does die from it...Since he has the same sentiment about me for not getting it. [Reply]
Originally Posted by MagicalFruit:
Depending on how many years until the next pandemic, I would think these 3 could be somewhat addressed:
- Supposed fear of long term side effects
If the next pandemic is, say, 20 years from now, that would be a lot better long term data than the 2 years we currently have.
- Vaccines being more(?) dangerous than what it's preventing
Again, in 20 years mRNA technology and testing damn well better be more tested. Also, depending on what it is preventing (i.e. something more serious than what COVID-19 turned out to be)...more people might find the risk/reward more palatable. - Do the really work at all
Again, 20 years more of research will undoubtedly help.
Also, I didn't quote DaFace to say we should be afraid of the vaccines killing people, but rather to say "oh well" if he does die from it...Since he has the same sentiment about me for not getting it.
The main reason I have my doubts on that is the science/technology will mostly likely change and the next thing may not be a coronavirus, so it won't be apples to apples... at least not enough to convince people who clearly don't want to be convinced.
And potentially, two+ decades will have gone by as you said, so the people in their 30s-40s right now who are part of the lowly 30% fully vaccinated group in the first 6 months it was available, will now be 50 or 60+... and guess what, those percentages are already really high. A lot more of the skeptics will take it for no other reason than being old. The needle isn't going to move a ton on the gross number of people taking it.
And those who will be in their 30s or 40s will have been 10-20 during Covid, so are they sitting around now caring about how this vaccine does? [Reply]
Originally Posted by MagicalFruit:
Modern day Nostradamus with that first bolded part!
For the second bolded part...it cuts both ways my friend.
That's not the same thing at all.
He's saying that people lose patience when solutions exist and people won't embrace them and end up getting hurt or killed.
You're saying that it's the same thing as somebody trying to save themselves and having it not work. It's not. It's exactly the opposite.
It would be like him saying that people lose patience with people who decide to stand on the beach when a hurricane approaches, and you're saying that people who get caught in a flood while on the evacuation route from a hurricane deserve no pity. [Reply]
Originally Posted by MagicalFruit:
I sure hope the vaccines will be better, hopefully a lot has been learned from this go around. But why do you think fewer people will take them?
Read the vaccine thread in DC and get back to me. [Reply]
Originally Posted by MagicalFruit:
Any updated thoughts on this? Do we think anything good has really come from this pandemic? Any amazing medical advancements? Are we more prepared for a much more dangerous pandemic?
I am thinking that at this point we are less prepared, honestly.
I think some good has come out of it in terms of lessons learned. I think that people are better about staying home when they're sick and not spreading stuff. Similarly, a person wearing a mask is not seen as weird like they were pre-pandemic if people understand that they're trying to not spread germs. I think people are better about general hygiene to avoid germs, like washing their hands more often, and we saw some nice lasting changes like the little foot-grabby things and arm-grabby things to open doors. I also personally hope that we've seen the end of handshakes, which I've never liked. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DaFace:
What does "being prepared" mean, though? If a tornado wipes out a town, does that mean the town wasn't prepared? If someone dies in a car accident, was the driver not prepared? Was Steve Irwin prepared when a stingray killed him?
Everything we do is a calculation between risk we face and effort required to mitigate that risk. We could blow the entire world's budget doing research and drills for pandemics, only to have an asteroid hit us in a year and wipe out all life on the planet because we didn't fully appreciate that risk.
We've certainly learned a lot these past few years, and I disagree strongly with the idea that we're "less prepared" - most people just didn't appreciate the risks like they do now. And it's almost undeniable that our mitigation efforts kept the death toll much lower than it could have been otherwise.
But does that mean that it'll never happen again? Of course not. We live on a rock that doesn't give a shit if we're here or not, so all we can do to "be prepared" is to assess the risks as accurately as we can, prepare accordingly, and hope that the probabilities play in our favor.
Oh, I don't think that we're any less prepared. We were winging it and the CDC totally failed with their messaging.
We are certainly more prepared now for something like Covid but that doesn't mean that things are going to go any better if the same kind of event pops up. [Reply]
It is apparently being sold in Israel and you can order it and get it here. My mom has asked me to order some but I am leery. But she ended up in the hospital after her second shot of the vaccine so she can't get anymore per her doctor and she has COPD so she is high risk. [Reply]
It is apparently being sold in Israel and you can order it and get it here. My mom has asked me to order some but I am leery. But she ended up in the hospital after her second shot of the vaccine so she can't get anymore per her doctor and she has COPD so she is high risk.
Looks like it is moving into a phase 3 study in October. I have no idea if it works or not.
You can order it on Amazon, but it's pricey.
I doubt it would hurt to try. But as far as actual b results, who knows. [Reply]
Originally Posted by BigRichard:
We have a family get together coming up and she wants to attend. She is thinking about using this around that time.
If your mom had a bad reaction to vaccine I would make sure her doc advises on a nasal spray before trying it Willy nilly. They have nasal sprays being developed in the US which show promise. Won’t be long before you see them next to the cold medicine at the pharmacy. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Bearcat:
Why didn't people take it the first go around?
- Supposed fear of long term side effects
- Vaccines being more(?) dangerous than what it's preventing
- Do the really work at all
- Youtube doctors
- People die everyday, who cares if they die from this thing (while simultaneously caring deeply about the minuscule chance of dying from the vaccine)
....other reasons?
Which of those reasons goes away with another pandemic, considering as you just said, the technology had already been in development for decades? And add to it, didn't die last time.
Hell, you just quoted Daface to say we should be afraid of the vaccines killing people, which his hilariously terrible math... if you still aren't convinced they're safe 2 years later, well, just multiply that by a 150 million people.
Fewer people will take them because Dunning Kruger + confirmation bias is a hell of a drug.
I didn't take it because I studied the data. I am in the basically safe from COVID group. [Reply]
Meanwhile. The FDA approved an update to the existing vaccine today. I haven't seen any data on it. Supposedly all the data they have right now is in mice. [Reply]