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Originally Posted by emaw1979:
I've seen it with my own eyes. I small black kid, maybe 4, ran up to a police officer. He was so excited and wanted to say hi. The officer got down on one knee to say hello. His mother snatched him up so fast and scolded him, "Don't you ever talk to him. They are bad people and the reason your brother is locked up".
That mother is setting her child up for failure. Racism in policing 40-50 years ago were bad and I could understand her reaction but today? Come on. When he grows up how is he going to react to a police officer if he needs help or gets pulled over or heaven forbid arrested? Instead of being taught to respect authority he's taught to hate them.
Today, people are learning it on liberal news stations, social media and movies because racism in policing doesn't exist today and hasn't for decades. An issue may flare up every once in awhile because police are human but those are dealt with swiftly when it does. It's an election year so it's hot and heavy right now to get Biden elected. It will die down for 3 years or so until 2024.
...and nope, you lost me.
racism in policing doesn't exist today? Wow. You want to go back a few pages and look at the huge volume of statistics that Twisted Chief dropped?
Anyway. Done with this conversation. Isn't Hannity on or something? [Reply]
Originally Posted by staylor26:
I’ve already addressed it.
The statistics you posted have nothing to do with police brutality. What is all of this about? Police brutality. I allowed you to get me sidetracked with other forms of racism, I’m not going to continue to do so.
I never said racism doesn’t exist, police don’t profile, it can’t be harder for blacks to get some jobs etc. That doesn’t mean that all blacks are being held back either though. Again, stop looking at everything so black and white. Despite what you believe there are millions of blacks that would tell you they don’t believe racism is a big issue, but you continue to act like there are 8.
That’s all I really have to say because I’m trying to focus on the supposed main issue which is police brutality.
What? The main issue is police brutality?
I'll repeat what I said earlier: you're so fucking dense.
The main issue is endemic racism. Police brutality is a byproduct of that.
You addressed nothing from those studies. All forms of police brutality are not captured in the base statistics you're so keen to quote.
Is stopping a black person and putting the fear of god into him a form of police brutality? Let's just take one study from a location near and dear to our hearts:
- A study of “investigatory” traffic stops — that is, stops that did not result in a citation — by police in Kansas City found that blacks were 2.7 times more likely to be pulled over in an investigatory stop, and five times more likely to be searched.
And how about:
- A 2014 telephone study of urban men found that “participants who reported more police contact also reported more trauma and anxiety symptoms, associations tied to how many stops they reported, the intrusiveness of the encounters, and their perceptions of police fairness,” and that “overall, the burden of police contact in each of these cities falls predominantly on young Black and Latino males.”
But hey, you only want to talk about direct police brutality because those are the 6 soundbites you're ready to play for us, so how about:
- A 2015 county-level study of police shootings from 2011 to 2014 found “a significant bias in the killing of unarmed black Americans relative to unarmed white Americans, in that the probability of being black, unarmed, and shot by police is about 3.49 times the probability of being white, unarmed, and shot by police on average.” The study also found “no relationship between county-level racial bias in police shootings and crime rates (even race-specific crime rates), meaning that the racial bias observed in police shootings in this data set is not explainable as a response to local-level crime rates.”
But they're minorities and according to you - verbatim - "that's just the reality of being a minority and nothing will ever change that."
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
...and nope, you lost me.
racism in policing doesn't exist today? Wow. You want to go back a few pages and look at the huge volume of statistics that Twisted Chief dropped?
Anyway. Done with this conversation. Isn't Hannity on or something?
The problem with those statistics is they fail to acknowledge the disproportionate amount of violent crime by blacks.
I mean for example, when 13% of the population (it’s actually less than that when you realize it’s almost always men) account for over 50% of the homicides what the fuck do you expect?
People like you two won’t even touch on stuff like this, and it’s frustrating because it’s completely relevant when discussing this kind of stuff.
Just like how often in these scenarios the black man is resisting. It never fails. I could honestly think of several scenarios off the top of my head right away. White people are much more cooperative with police. Acknowledge that and the difference it makes.
Originally Posted by emaw1979:
If an officer kills someone, like in Minnesota or any other instance, it's investigated by an outside agency like the state or multiple area agencies. The agency that officer belongs to aren't part of the investigation.
Bad apples are rooted out pretty quickly generally speaking. Why would you punish people that have no knowledge of the bad apples? If you witness something or have knowledge of a criminal offense and don't report it would you like to be held financially responsible?
If an officer kills someone "wrongly" and they are likely outside of policy they can be held liable civilly as well as criminal charges.
Proof? Link? Anything to back that up? The exact opposite of what you just stated is a major reason for what's going on in the country right now. [Reply]
Anti-LEO didn't start under Obama, though. That's not a true statement. That's when the anti LEO rhetoric became popular and mainstream in the news
I also don't think ditching police unions is a good idea, but there definitely must be more accountability. A look at Chauvin's record tells me that it's not happening right now.
Supposedly, there were several internal complaints about him from officers. The accountability issue is much higher than his fellow officers
And the 'good cops' aren't turning in the bad ones. 57 in Buffalo the other day say otherwise.Well, if you just have knowledge of the cut video then I could see that argument but the whole story paints a different picture. The guy was an activist telling people he wanted to get punched (by officers). He was trying to get the protesters to riot. He was ordered by officers to move back and refused. They had the legal authority to push him back. I highly doubt that officer meant to push him to the ground and injure him. It also looks bad that he didn't stop but you can see him radio in to the medics. They had protesters a few feet away that they were dealing with as well trying to clear.
The three other cops with Chauvin tell me otherwise. It tells me that at the very least, other cops are afraid of speaking out or intervening; at worst they're fine with it.
I don't think the two rookies should be charged. One was on the job for a few days? That's lack of training and experience on their part.The other seasoned cop should absolutely be charged.
The 'militarization' of cops...I have no issues with vests. We don't need ****ing armored cars. That's ridiculous, and was some shit that started with the Patriot Act. They look like ****ing Stormtroopers, a lot of the time they act like Stormtroopers, so yeah, the public regards them as...Stormtroopers.
Have you seen the video of the "cops" in the UK? They were sprinting away from the rioters who were chasing them.
community policing, walking beats, actually being a part of the community and living in that community would all go a long way towards making things a lot better, I agree. It's the "OTHERNESS" that is a huge problem on so many levels in this country. When people actually get to know each other, they learn that most people are the same, really.
I agree. When people stop seeing each other as people then it gets ugly.
I think maybe something like any unnecessary force complaints should be
reviewed by a civilian board. Smaller towns could maybe do it with City Council. Larger cities might have to draw a new board.
Civilian Boards? There's pros and cons but the cons outweigh the positives in my opinion. Maybe a division of the DA's office? I could probably get behind that since they know the law, would be charging in these situations and could be impartial.
Originally Posted by staylor26:
The problem with those statistics is they fail to acknowledge the disproportionate amount of violent crime by blacks.
I mean for example, when 13% of the population (it’s actually less than that when you realize it’s almost always men) account for over 50% of the homicides what the **** do you expect?
People like you two won’t even touch on stuff like this, and it’s frustrating because it’s completely relevant when discussing this kind of stuff.
Just like how often in these scenarios the black man is resisting. It never fails. I could honestly think of several scenarios off the top of my head right away. White people are much more cooperative with police. Acknowledge that and the difference it makes.
The truth is almost always in the middle.
No, dude, we're saying there's a fucking reason for that. [Reply]
Originally Posted by TwistedChief:
What? The main issue is police brutality?
I'll repeat what I said earlier: you're so fucking dense.
The main issue is endemic racism. Police brutality is a byproduct of that.
You addressed nothing from those studies. All forms of police brutality are not captured in the base statistics you're so keen to quote.
Is stopping a black person and putting the fear of god into him a form of police brutality? Let's just take one study from a location near and dear to our hearts:
- A study of “investigatory” traffic stops — that is, stops that did not result in a citation — by police in Kansas City found that blacks were 2.7 times more likely to be pulled over in an investigatory stop, and five times more likely to be searched.
And how about:
- A 2014 telephone study of urban men found that “participants who reported more police contact also reported more trauma and anxiety symptoms, associations tied to how many stops they reported, the intrusiveness of the encounters, and their perceptions of police fairness,” and that “overall, the burden of police contact in each of these cities falls predominantly on young Black and Latino males.”
But hey, you only want to talk about direct police brutality because those are the 6 soundbites you're ready to play for us, so how about:
- A 2015 county-level study of police shootings from 2011 to 2014 found “a significant bias in the killing of unarmed black Americans relative to unarmed white Americans, in that the probability of being black, unarmed, and shot by police is about 3.49 times the probability of being white, unarmed, and shot by police on average.” The study also found “no relationship between county-level racial bias in police shootings and crime rates (even race-specific crime rates), meaning that the racial bias observed in police shootings in this data set is not explainable as a response to local-level crime rates.”
But they're minorities and according to you - verbatim - "that's just the reality of being a minority and nothing will ever change that."
Fuck you.
What the fuck do you think the protests and riots are about? This thread? It’s about police brutality you fucking moron. That’s what I mean when I’m talking about the main issue. It has nothing to do with you.
Everything you just posted is from 5 years ago. I would be the first to tell you that this was a bigger problem then than that it is now, but even then it’s overblown in terms of killings. The stats I’ve provided have been about the last 2-3 years. [Reply]
Police corruption has been a big story since the 70's. Ever seen Serpico?
corruption and racism are part and parcel.
If higher ups aren't getting the bad cops off the streets despite fellow officer complaints, well, fine-that's obviously part of the problem. I don't think anyone would argue that the system is NOT broken.
DA offices handling police cases could be really problematic, as they do and need to work together with police. I don't see that as an answer as they're part of the same fucked up system currently. I'd almost rather it be civilians.
There is no excuse for the Buffalo incident. If you can't handle a 75 year old man, you shouldn't put on the uniform. None. That's a non-starter.
When you need armored cars and fucking tanks to stop your public from rioting, there are much bigger problems afoot. [Reply]
Originally Posted by staylor26:
There’s a reason that blacks commit more than 50% of the murders that has nothing to do with responsibility of those individuals?
It’s not all socioeconomics dude. It’s a culture issue, but you all don’t want to talk about that either.