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The Marty Lounge>Veach's '21 Offseason Plan to Keep Us Thriving: Let's speculate
Dante84 10:03 AM 02-08-2021
In order to prevent us wasting precious years of Patrick Mahomes' career, Veach needs to work some magic this offseason. What's your advice for him?
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mkp785 02:56 PM 02-09-2021
Originally Posted by Hoover:
It's talent. Our offensive live sucked last year too. Especial the inside.

I get that Reid and Co do an outstanding job of producing NFL offensive linemen out of late round draft picks. Guys like LDT are gems when you get them in the 5th round, but he also has a ceiling. So when he goes up against a Donald or someone like that its probably going to be a long day.

We have seen what Reid can do with 5th, 6th, and 7th round offensive line talent, but maybe just maybe we should start off with players with a little more natural talent. Imagine what Reid could do with a 2nd round talent.

The Chiefs recently have struggled against what? Teams with a ton of talent on the defensive line. We have to address it. It's our kryptonite.
Well, Niang was a 3rd. Have high hopes for him, that said, I would like to see a center or another tackle in the 2nd this year.
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Hoover 02:58 PM 02-09-2021
Originally Posted by mkp785:
Well, Niang was a 3rd. Have high hopes for him, that said, I would like to see a center or another tackle in the 2nd this year.
I do too.

I have high hopes for Niang, but that Covid year really adds some question marks. Now if we can have a regular offseason and get guys in, that should help a lot with him.
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In58men 03:03 PM 02-09-2021
Bills WR John Brown could be available from what Iím hearing.
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mkp785 03:08 PM 02-09-2021
Originally Posted by Hoover:
I do too.

I have high hopes for Niang, but that Covid year really adds some question marks. Now if we can have a regular offseason and get guys in, that should help a lot with him.
He had some serious injuries before that draft-he played them through during his last year but he needed some time off. If anything, the time off did him some good. Allowed his body to heal properly. He's a massive player and should be able to fit right in at RT. He can play guard too but we might have something in Allegretti, and will need the Frenchman so we're not starting all new faces this season.

With LDT coming back the main spots on the line we gotta handle is LT and C (if Reiter leaves). Depth too of course. I think that Niang can take that RT spot from jump street. Hopefully.
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Easy 6 03:10 PM 02-09-2021
Originally Posted by Hoover:
It's talent. Our offensive live sucked last year too. Especial the inside.

I get that Reid and Co do an outstanding job of producing NFL offensive linemen out of late round draft picks. Guys like LDT are gems when you get them in the 5th round, but he also has a ceiling. So when he goes up against a Donald or someone like that its probably going to be a long day.

We have seen what Reid can do with 5th, 6th, and 7th round offensive line talent, but maybe just maybe we should start off with players with a little more natural talent. Imagine what Reid could do with a 2nd round talent.

The Chiefs recently have struggled against what? Teams with a ton of talent on the defensive line. We have to address it. It's our kryptonite.
Great post, it cuts to the heart of my argument about starting with a base talent level beyond what 5-6-7th rounders bring
[Reply]
htismaqe 03:13 PM 02-09-2021
Originally Posted by Hoover:
It's talent. Our offensive live sucked last year too. Especial the inside.

I get that Reid and Co do an outstanding job of producing NFL offensive linemen out of late round draft picks. Guys like LDT are gems when you get them in the 5th round, but he also has a ceiling. So when he goes up against a Donald or someone like that its probably going to be a long day.

We have seen what Reid can do with 5th, 6th, and 7th round offensive line talent, but maybe just maybe we should start off with players with a little more natural talent. Imagine what Reid could do with a 2nd round talent.

The Chiefs recently have struggled against what? Teams with a ton of talent on the defensive line. We have to address it. It's our kryptonite.
They had a 2nd round talent in Rodney Hudson and let him go because they didn't want to pay him.

They replaced him with a 2nd-round talent in Mitch Morse, and between the concussions and his free agent price tag, they decided not to pay him either.
[Reply]
Superturtle 03:17 PM 02-09-2021
Originally Posted by Hoover:
It's talent. Our offensive live sucked last year too. Especial the inside.

I get that Reid and Co do an outstanding job of producing NFL offensive linemen out of late round draft picks. Guys like LDT are gems when you get them in the 5th round, but he also has a ceiling. So when he goes up against a Donald or someone like that its probably going to be a long day.

We have seen what Reid can do with 5th, 6th, and 7th round offensive line talent, but maybe just maybe we should start off with players with a little more natural talent. Imagine what Reid could do with a 2nd round talent.

The Chiefs recently have struggled against what? Teams with a ton of talent on the defensive line. We have to address it. It's our kryptonite.
The teams we face in the Super Bowl are likely going to have monsters on the defensive line regardless of who we play as well.

Green Bay, Tampa Bay, San Fransisco, and Los Angeles are the top 4 favored to come out of the NFC. All of them have pass rushing talent that will wreck our shit if the OL isn't properly addressed.
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Chris Meck 03:18 PM 02-09-2021
It made perfect sense, especially in a plague year with little offseason to bring as many of your guys back as possible after winning a Super Bowl.

The fact that we were able to bring 20 out of 22 starters or something like that back was a HUGE advantage.

Covid opt-outs and injuries just killed us, especially on the offensive line, and so we fell short of the ultimate goal.

But-this game also exposed a flaw; It takes time to develop 7th rounders and UDFA's into potential NFL quality players. Even then, there is likely a ceiling to their abilities. Yes, nobody could've done better in the situation The Chiefs found themselves in, but the fact is that there's also no real help on the way that you can count on in player development. A bunch of 7th rounders and UDFA's are unlikely to win match-ups against 1st round defensive linemen.

It's time to move the investment in the offensive line up on the priority list; we simply don't have a couple years to try to groom guys to play anymore, and we can't afford to be that short on talent when our opponents are stocking their front 7 with top tier talent.

IF we could run the ball efficiently, we might never punt. It's really that simple. The way to beat The Chiefs is pressure with 4, drop 7 in coverage. When your 4 are better than our 5, you'll win.

If we can run the ball without smoke and mirrors, we can force a defense to play honest. If we can do that, we might go 19-0.
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Superturtle 03:20 PM 02-09-2021
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
It made perfect sense, especially in a plague year with little offseason to bring as many of your guys back as possible after winning a Super Bowl.

The fact that we were able to bring 20 out of 22 starters or something like that back was a HUGE advantage.

Covid opt-outs and injuries just killed us, especially on the offensive line, and so we fell short of the ultimate goal.

But-this game also exposed a flaw; It takes time to develop 7th rounders and UDFA's into potential NFL quality players. Even then, there is likely a ceiling to their abilities. Yes, nobody could've done better in the situation The Chiefs found themselves in, but the fact is that there's also no real help on the way that you can count on in player development. A bunch of 7th rounders and UDFA's are unlikely to win match-ups against 1st round defensive linemen.

It's time to move the investment in the offensive line up on the priority list; we simply don't have a couple years to try to groom guys to play anymore, and we can't afford to be that short on talent when our opponents are stocking their front 7 with top tier talent.

IF we could run the ball efficiently, we might never punt. It's really that simple. The way to beat The Chiefs is pressure with 4, drop 7 in coverage. When your 4 are better than our 5, you'll win.

If we can run the ball without smoke and mirrors, we can force a defense to play honest. If we can do that, we might go 19-0.
Yep. Protecting Mahomes and being able to establish a legitimate running game are more important immediately in my eyes than a 3rd receiving option or a pass rushing DE.
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staylor26 03:23 PM 02-09-2021
Originally Posted by Superturtle:
Yep. Protecting Mahomes and being able to establish a legitimate running game are more important immediately in my eyes than a 3rd receiving option or a pass rushing DE.
Sure, but you’re already probably adding guys like Niang and LDT to the OL.

On the other hand, you’re likely losing Watkins/Robinson and Okafor/KPass.

That context closes that gap a little.

And it’s also about positional value with DE. A pass rusher that could add 8-10 sacks opposite of Clark would put this defense in elite territory.
[Reply]
Hoover 03:24 PM 02-09-2021
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
They had a 2nd round talent in Rodney Hudson and let him go because they didn't want to pay him.

They replaced him with a 2nd-round talent in Mitch Morse, and between the concussions and his free agent price tag, they decided not to pay him either.
Agree. The money Hudson got on the open market was crazy. We probably should have kept him. I wouldn't have paid Mitch either with his history of concussions.

But drafting guys in the 2nd round and not giving them a second contract, doesn't mean they were mistakes.

In the prime of Mahomes, drafting a guy in the 2nd who comes in and starts and plays well on a rookie contract is exactly what we need. Now when it comes time to pay him, it's going to be a big decision. That's OK. We already won by having contributor on a rookie contract.

Kpass is a 2nd rounder, who we are moving on from. Now he was too much a project for me, but I wouldn't say he's a bust. I'm happy that he was a defensive starter for half the time he was here, I just don't think he's worth a second contract.

And just because we drafted a couple centers in the 2nd round and let them walk, doesn't mean we would do it again. Even if Fisher and Schwartz were 100% healthy, we have to add some young building blocks on the line if we are going compete for championships.
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OKchiefs 03:24 PM 02-09-2021
Originally Posted by staylor26:
Are you seriously comparing this OL to last years?

Nick Bosa is a ****ing beast dumbass. Fisher struggles with power. The 49ers had one of the greatest groups of pass rushers ever assembled, and it still wasnít enough.

If we had last years OL on Sunday, we win again.

Youíre overthinking it because you want another position group to bitch about like always.
Fuck you dumbass.

Are you really that fucking stupid to not understand the tone of my post?

And even if I was just bitching about the OL, I'm just joining the club since just about everyone on here is. But I'm not, I'm looking for a solution.

Barrett and Bosa both had 10+ pressures in each game. Yes, they're both beasts. But that's excessive. So I'm very clearly wondering if there is an issue with the offensive playcalling or system that goes beyond the OL if we had our OL at full strength in 2019 and we still gave up a ton of pressures. Are we relying too much on a deep passing game when we should be sticking with a shorter passing game with the run used a bit more than normal? Or some other issue?

No, I'm not just bitching about the OL. There's no point in bitching about the OL, because everyone knows the injuries killed us. I'm looking deeper at what has led to elite pass rushers absolutely wrecking our OL no matter who we lined up. The common denominator is the play caller and the overall system.
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The Franchise 03:26 PM 02-09-2021
This team isn’t adding 4 rookie offensive linemen to the mix and succeeding. I don’t see Reid or Veach doing that.
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staylor26 03:26 PM 02-09-2021
Imagine thinking Nick Bosa having 10+ pressures is the same as Barrett doing it....

Bosa is going to get his. He was the best defensive player on the field in that game.
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Superturtle 03:27 PM 02-09-2021
Originally Posted by staylor26:
Sure, but you’re already probably adding guys like Niang and LDT to the OL.

On the other hand, you’re likely losing Watkins/Robinson and Okafor/KPass.

That context closes that gap a little.

And it’s also about positional value with DE. A pass rusher that could add 8-10 sacks opposite of Clark would put this defense in elite territory.
Niang is an unknown commodity in the NFL coming off major surgery and LDT wasn't exactly a bastion of health before he left to fight the pandemic.

Watkins/Robinson and Okafor/Kpass were JAG level guys at best this year. I don't think it'll be too hard to find replacements for them.

Edit: for Niang I mean unknown as to whether he can actually play T or will be relegated to G to start his career
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