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Saccopoo Memorial Draft Forum>The logic of drafting OT in the 1st.
Direckshun 01:23 PM 01-21-2021
What we know about this team is that it typically likes to fill its roster out as much as possible in free agency and then spend its highest picks on potential replacements for job openings a year down the road, and that includes Veach.

I doubt I even need to run down the list but:

2020: CEH --> Williams
2019: Hardman --> Hill/Watkins
2018: Speaks --> Ford/Houston
2017: Mahomes --> Smith

Fisher will be on the last year of his contract, and most of us suspect Schwartz retiring.

The Chiefs obviously like Niang but going OT 1st gives them the options:It just seems like the kind of move that gives them the flexibility in future decisions that they like to have.

I'd rather they go DE, even if it means trading up for one. But based on what we know, OT could ostensibly solve up to two different OL spots in 2021 and gives them all kinds of options in 2022 based on how 2021 goes.
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DaneMcCloud 01:05 PM 01-22-2021
Originally Posted by Direckshun:
Go Chiefs
There's not a chance in the world that the Chiefs take a tackle at #32 when their WR corp for 2021 consists of Hill and Pringle.
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DaneMcCloud 01:10 PM 01-22-2021
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
the simple fact of the matter is that if the line was a little better, we'd be better in the red zone, running the ball, and protecting Mahomes.
I disagree.

The Chiefs didn't really lose anyone of value on the offensive line to start the season and even with their 4th LG, 2nd Center and 2nd Right Tackle, the Chiefs obliterated the Bills with 245 yards rushing.

The problem is the running back room, which I've been hammering since March 2020. Darrel Williams has improved over his rookie season but he's still not a huge threat because he lacks top end and breakaway speed.

Darwin Award Thompson is a bottom of the roster guy that isn't going to give 100+ yards from scrimmage for 16 weeks and while I was excited about the addition of Leveon Bell, it's pretty clear that he's finished as a lead back and maybe even as a complimentary back.

The Chiefs need another long term complimentary back to CEH because there's no guarantee that 29 year old, Damien Williams will be the same guy as 27 year old Damien Williams, especially when taking into consideration his long injury history.
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mkp785 01:12 PM 01-22-2021
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
completely in agreement.

Personally, I'm leaning towards a DE in round one if there's a good fit.

But in Veach I trust.
I'll 2nd (3rd?) this statement. Grab our possible Frank replacement/extra rusher in the 1st and hopefully grab a center with our second. We have Niang and the Frenchman coming back next season, so we'll automatically be better.
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DaneMcCloud 01:17 PM 01-22-2021
Originally Posted by mkp785:
I'll 2nd (3rd?) this statement. Grab our possible Frank replacement/extra rusher in the 1st and hopefully grab a center with our second. We have Niang and the Frenchman coming back next season, so we'll automatically be better.
And there will be far more offensive lineman available for Vet Min in free agency due to expiring contracts and no opt outs.

Chiefs fans will just need to get used to JAG's on the interior because the value just doesn't equal a high pick in the draft.
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DaneMcCloud 01:19 PM 01-22-2021
And for as much as people think that Austin Reiter "sucks", this particular CBS Sports writer believes that Reiter will be worth $11 million per in Free Agency.

If he can get that, go for it, Dude.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/f...bell-and-more/

Reiter has been a nice find for the Chiefs, who claimed him off waivers back in 2018. He eventually earned a starting role and has proven to be a quality player for a championship-winning squad. This season, Reiter didn't allow a single pressure and wasn't penalized at all, according to PFF. Per Spotrac's market value projection, Reiter could expect to see a contract with an AAV of $11.4 million.
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htismaqe 01:54 PM 01-22-2021
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud:
And there will be far more offensive lineman available for Vet Min in free agency due to expiring contracts and no opt outs.

Chiefs fans will just need to get used to JAG's on the interior because the value just doesn't equal a high pick in the draft.
Yep.
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htismaqe 01:55 PM 01-22-2021
Looks like we're going to need a new center. Reiter is absolutely not worth that kind of money. I mean, they let Morse go, they won't hesitate to let Reiter go at that rate.
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DaneMcCloud 02:11 PM 01-22-2021
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
Looks like we're going to need a new center. Reiter is absolutely not worth that kind of money. I mean, they let Morse go, they won't hesitate to let Reiter go at that rate.
Agreed. If Reiter can get that kind of dough in Free Agency, he should definitely go for it.

The Chiefs recently released rookie Center Darryl Williams from the Practice Squad, so they don't even have a center in their current pipeline.
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mkp785 04:54 PM 01-22-2021
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud:
And there will be far more offensive lineman available for Vet Min in free agency due to expiring contracts and no opt outs.

Chiefs fans will just need to get used to JAG's on the interior because the value just doesn't equal a high pick in the draft.
...which I'm fine with. The only 2 spots I really care about on the line is LT- which we'll have Fisher back(hopefully less than 20 million/yr) and center.

I agree we don't need 1st rd picks there. We took Niang in what the 3rd? Thats fine for a lineman that was around 10th or so in his class. If we can grab the top ranked center at 64th-take it and call it a day.

I agree about Reiter btw, if he can find someone to pay him 11+ a year then godspeed. He actually might get it if we pull off the repeat. That superbowl smell has gotten many dudes overpaid after they win a ring. I just dont want Veach footing that bill.
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kccrow 06:06 PM 01-22-2021
Originally Posted by Direckshun:
Niang played his ass off against Chase Young, right?
Are you going to argue that the Chase Young Niang squared off against when Young was a Sophomore is the same Chase Young that Mayfield squared off against as a Junior? I don't think so.

That said, Niang was a catalyst for making Young a better player and focusing on his technique, so that's good for Young and a testimate to Niang using sound technique to beat pure athleticism.

While I do have some hope that Niang will become a good RT in this league, I do question him not wanting to be around for his rookie season. I get that COVID is "no joke" but are top athletes really an at risk group? I don't know, I'm not going to label him a pussy but it just doesn't sit well for me especially in that toughness department.

Anyhow, I'm not putting my eggs in any particular basket and, unlike some, I still consider RT on the table in round 1. To me, round 1 isn't for "playmakers," its for pillars. I consider OT a pillar. Argue all day on that one and my mind won't be changed.

I agree with a few others that interior offensive line, particularly Center, is a must have by the end of round 4 and I prefer a day 2 pick. I don't think you can go into 2021 with the current O-line and a couple round 6 guys. I just don't think you put Pat in that situation where he's going to have to wait until at least 2022 to see an improvement, if not 2023. Sure, you can patch in a couple shitty free agents, but generally they are exactly that. I don't mind Kilgore, actually, and wouldn't mind him back over Reiter but Reid has his odd loyalties.
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htismaqe 09:13 PM 01-22-2021
Originally Posted by kccrow:
Are you going to argue that the Chase Young Niang squared off against when Young was a Sophomore is the same Chase Young that Mayfield squared off against as a Junior? I don't think so.

That said, Niang was a catalyst for making Young a better player and focusing on his technique, so that's good for Young and a testimate to Niang using sound technique to beat pure athleticism.

While I do have some hope that Niang will become a good RT in this league, I do question him not wanting to be around for his rookie season. I get that COVID is "no joke" but are top athletes really an at risk group? I don't know, I'm not going to label him a pussy but it just doesn't sit well for me especially in that toughness department.

Anyhow, I'm not putting my eggs in any particular basket and, unlike some, I still consider RT on the table in round 1. To me, round 1 isn't for "playmakers," its for pillars. I consider OT a pillar. Argue all day on that one and my mind won't be changed.

I agree with a few others that interior offensive line, particularly Center, is a must have by the end of round 4 and I prefer a day 2 pick. I don't think you can go into 2021 with the current O-line and a couple round 6 guys. I just don't think you put Pat in that situation where he's going to have to wait until at least 2022 to see an improvement, if not 2023. Sure, you can patch in a couple shitty free agents, but generally they are exactly that. I don't mind Kilgore, actually, and wouldn't mind him back over Reiter but Reid has his odd loyalties.
OT at least has a higher value. It wouldn't be terrible in the 1st. I'd rather have other positions but OT isn't a bad thing. IOL would be though.
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Chris Meck 09:40 PM 01-22-2021
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud:
I thought the Chiefs would take a running back as early as #32 but with met with "**** that! The Chiefs need a guard or a center!".

If the Chiefs had taken a guard or center, there's not a chance in the world that they'd be 15-2 today.



As Reid has proven since his arrival in 2013, his offense isn't about offensive lineman but about the QB and skill position players.

People on CP used to complain that Brady was so good that the Patriots could just plug in anyone off the street and win Super Bowls but when the Chiefs are doing the same exact thing, people continue to bitch that the offensive line "isn't good enough".

The game has changed completely. You don't need 5 1st rounders to protect a QB for 2.2 seconds.
1)CEH was a great pick, no doubt. But I don't think anyone's saying that we need to drop our #1 on a guard. The Bills sold out to stop big passing plays, and so we ran it down their throats behind Allegretti and Kilgore almost exclusively, and both of those guys are better run blockers than they players they replaced. We have some issues running the ball; I don't think it's all about the backs. We have some issues in pass pro- we have issues controlling the line of scrimmage. I think Reiter's pretty lousy whatever some guy at CBS thinks. If he's going to get $11 million, good for him. We can do better anyway, which is really my point. Add to that Schwartz is MIA and big guys with bad backs over 30 don't usually get better and I think there's cause for maybe looking at restocking the line. That's not crazy.

2) obviously, Reid's offense is about skill position players; and we have Hill, Kelce, Hardman, and CEH for 2021 as well as Pringle who looks at least as good as Robinson. Watkins never plays anyway so whatever. It's probably time to draft some new blood in there for depth and development but I'll remind you that only CEH is a #1, and that was at #32. Other than Mahomes, of course, who is what really makes things go. No rookie WR is going to start anyway, it's not gonna happen. The offense is too complicated.

3)I don't think anyone's saying we need to spend a bunch of #1's on the line. Reid and Veach thus far have taken the path of UDFA and low picks in numbers to develop and hit on one here and there. That's cool, and cost effective. It's just that we might want to move it up the priority list a little and maybe get a guy that's more ready to play sooner than later, as we've got one quality starter under contract for 2021 that might be healthy. That's it. ONE. And Fisher's had injury problems that last two years too. Actually, I like Alegretti, so call it two. Like on the whole line.

4) Mahomes likes to chuck it 50 yards downfield. You need more than 2.2 seconds to do that, even when it's Tyreek.

I ain't mad at Veach, we had two covid opt-outs and Osemele exploded both of his knees and Schwart's back is ****ed and Fisher's back was ****ed, and shit happens.

I don't think it's nuts to maybe spend a mid round pick (you know, kind of like Veach and Reid did last season) on an offensive lineman.

Also-I said when we signed Bell (and before, when people wanted to sign him before the season) that his style wasn't a very good fit for a team with a less than average line. That's kind of just proven out.

Darrel Williams is a fine 3rd back. That's all. He's a role player.

Damien can't be a bellcow, he can't stay healthy, you're right. Of course, with CEH here, he becomes the #2. That's probably fine.
[Reply]
Chargem 04:46 AM 01-23-2021
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud:
There's not a chance in the world that the Chiefs take a tackle at #32 when their WR corp for 2021 consists of Hill and Pringle.
Wow Hardman is so bad you completely forgot about him?

I'd still be targeting WR, DE, S in the 1st.
[Reply]
Direckshun 11:39 AM 01-23-2021
Originally Posted by kccrow:
Are you going to argue that the Chase Young Niang squared off against when Young was a Sophomore is the same Chase Young that Mayfield squared off against as a Junior? I don't think so.

That said, Niang was a catalyst for making Young a better player and focusing on his technique, so that's good for Young and a testimate to Niang using sound technique to beat pure athleticism.

While I do have some hope that Niang will become a good RT in this league, I do question him not wanting to be around for his rookie season. I get that COVID is "no joke" but are top athletes really an at risk group? I don't know, I'm not going to label him a pussy but it just doesn't sit well for me especially in that toughness department.

Anyhow, I'm not putting my eggs in any particular basket and, unlike some, I still consider RT on the table in round 1. To me, round 1 isn't for "playmakers," its for pillars. I consider OT a pillar. Argue all day on that one and my mind won't be changed.

I agree with a few others that interior offensive line, particularly Center, is a must have by the end of round 4 and I prefer a day 2 pick. I don't think you can go into 2021 with the current O-line and a couple round 6 guys. I just don't think you put Pat in that situation where he's going to have to wait until at least 2022 to see an improvement, if not 2023. Sure, you can patch in a couple shitty free agents, but generally they are exactly that. I don't mind Kilgore, actually, and wouldn't mind him back over Reiter but Reid has his odd loyalties.
All of this is fair except you can get all the way off Niangís back for the opt out.

You donít know his life circumstances and you donít know what heís dealing with.
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DaneMcCloud 01:55 PM 01-23-2021
Originally Posted by Chargem:
Wow Hardman is so bad you completely forgot about him?
Yeah, I guess so.

Originally Posted by Chargem:
I'd still be targeting WR, DE, S in the 1st.
I'm good with WR, DE or even CB in the 1st but considering they have Thornhill and Mathieu, I don't see the logic in spending the #32 overall pick on a safety.

I can see them grabbing another safety in the 4th or 5th but not in the first.
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