Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Then in all likelihood he'll be traded for a 2nd round pick.
They can't afford him next year. They'll save $15 million on the cap by moving on from him - this is the penance they'll serve for getting him relatively cheap last season.
The only way Watkins is here next season is if Hill isn't. They cannot afford to keep both guys.
It comes down to if Watkins can stay on the field.
If he plays all 16 games- a Big if- his production should put him the top ten for WR's. I think they will find a way to keep him. But if they do trade him away- Veech better draft his replacement unless he thinks Hardman is going to be just as valuable to this offense.
If Watkins misses 2 - 4 games - and ends up with 500 to 700 yards- Watkins will have to take a Huge pay cut to stay. I doubt we could get much in trade (4th) rounder for a guy with his injury history.
If Watkins misses more than 5 games- not much trade value- Cut to save the cap hit.
The way Watkins looks in camp- he should have a career year. This is a great situation for him and I know he loves it here. But that has been his problem- lots of potential to be dominate- but can't stay out there consistently. Based on his history - he will most likely be in the 2nd or 3rd category and will be moving on to his 4th team. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Halfcan:
It comes down to if Watkins can stay on the field.
If he plays all 16 games- a Big if- his production should put him the top ten for WR's. I think they will find a way to keep him. But if they do trade him away- Veech better draft his replacement unless he thinks Hardman is going to be just as valuable to this offense.
You can’t pay everyone.
Clark 20 million AAV
Tyreek 20 million AAV
Mahomes 40 million AAV (projected/rumored)
Kelce 10 million AAV
Fisher 12 million AAV
Schwartz 10 million AAV
Honey Badger 18 million AAV
And now Chris Jones wants 20 million AAV. Can’t keep all these guys. [Reply]
Originally Posted by MAHOMO 4 LIFE!:
They can literally save money by extending him
That's not 'saving' money, it's restructuring it. And he's gonna expect to get it back. You don't 'save' money by paying with your credit card on an installment plan. Under you're plan, you're paying him that money back in the years that Hill/Clark/Jones/Mahomes are all getting deeper into their LTCs and are making significant base salaries. And if you're not willing to make him an extension offer that pays him that money back, he's gonna refuse to renegotiate and you're gonna have to cut him.
Kicking the can doesn't help when you're not looking at a 1-2 year competitive window. All of those serious cap liabilities are young guys that we WANT here for the next 5+ seasons.
What you're suggesting is how teams get into true cap hell. You can make tougher decisions earlier on in contracts, take some dead money and move along. Or you can restructure to push those liabilities down the road, keep the status quo for another year or so and then really have things bite you in the ass 2 or 3 years down the road.
"The Cap is a Myth" to those that don't pay attention to it. You can dance around it for awhile but if you do the kind of things you're suggesting, it's going to start costing you guys you REALLY want to keep rather than luxury WRs. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Hog's Gone Fishin:
Watkins probably has a really good year this year but I bet he takes a little discount to stay and catch passes from the Superbowl MVP. I mean he's already a multimillionaire.
That won't happen, the entire idea of the Watkins deal was for him to get back into the market to get paid, he's only going to take less if he sucks. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
That's not 'saving' money, it's restructuring it. And he's gonna expect to get it back. You don't 'save' money by paying with your credit card on an installment plan. Under you're plan, you're paying him that money back in the years that Hill/Clark/Jones/Mahomes are all getting deeper into their LTCs and are making significant base salaries. And if you're not willing to make him an extension offer that pays him that money back, he's gonna refuse to renegotiate and you're gonna have to cut him.
Kicking the can doesn't help when you're not looking at a 1-2 year competitive window. All of those serious cap liabilities are young guys that we WANT here for the next 5+ seasons.
What you're suggesting is how teams get into true cap hell. You can make tougher decisions earlier on in contracts, take some dead money and move along. Or you can restructure to push those liabilities down the road, keep the status quo for another year or so and then really have things bite you in the ass 2 or 3 years down the road.
"The Cap is a Myth" to those that don't pay attention to it. You can dance around it for awhile but if you do the kind of things you're suggesting, it's going to start costing you guys you REALLY want to keep rather than luxury WRs.
Hey DJ, whatcha thinking about going full bore and doing this?
Originally Posted by staylor26:
He was a totally different player in Dallas, and the Cowboys would’ve liked to keep him at the right price, but they had no choice but to “let him walk for nothing” because he was a free agent. You could say that every time a free agent signs somewhere else. Really dumb even for Billay.
And yes we overpaid. And we did it agin this year. I don’t give a **** though because I’d rather overpay and add talent while we can as opposed to sitting on cap space like the Colts and not getting much better in the offseason. This is the time to spend. You idiots that bitch about overpaying can’t get it through your ****ing heads.
No they didn't and once he left their LB play got even better. He's trash but since Nelson is gone you needed a new scrub to endorse. Have at it! [Reply]
Nope. Even if Jones doesn't get extended, you go for this year.
If you mean via a tag and trade for Jones next season? Totally on board. I would love to see additional draft capital to allow this squad to address the OL and CB situations long-term with higher end prospects.
I think people are sleeping on how tough it's gonna be to keep building this team around the highest paid player in football and the sacrifices that's gonna take. I mean hearing people say "well just extend Watkins then!" tells me they have very little concept of how much that jump from him $5 million in cap charges to $40 million is going to hurt.
I mean if Hill alone were making at his market value, we'd be tight against the cap. And we can make it work with all 3 of them going forward but as I've noted, Veach will be working without a net at that point and without a ton of draft capital to fortify things.
He's gotta be right and he's gotta build almost exclusively around veterans on 1-year 'make good' deals, these Lee/Ragland/Ogbah kind of trades for disappointing young veterans and draft picks. That's doable every now and again but that will be the SOP for the next 3-4 years if you keep all those guys.
If I were in charge I would want to give myself more breathing room, more flexibility and a chance at additional bites at the apple. Extra cap space and draft picks does that.
If you can save yourself $35 million in cap space and effectively trade for an additional day 1 and 2 of the NFL draft, I kinda think that's a slam dunk. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla:
Hard man has been balling out as well. Find a TE2, and we don’t have a weakness.
I'm really not sure Veach is looking to add a #2 TE and frankly I think there is no need as the team has some options on its roster and after Hill, Kelce, Watkins, Robinson, Hardman and the RBs have had their yards, there is not much left for a #2 TE.
I mean even if Kelce was to get injured, you can still have a terrific offense with all those WRs.
This whole offense is good to go but if there is one spot where I migtht have a slight concern it is the interior OL, not the #2 TE. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Mecca:
Watkins is not going to have much trade value...
He will if he performs.
A $14 million cap hit with no risk of dead money for the acquiring team for a player who was once a top selection who has demonstrated premier ability when healthy - that's a pretty nice asset. Especially for a team picking lower in the round. I mean let's say you're the Ravens and you'd like a nice weapon for Jackson to work with on shorter passes and you're drafting 23rd or so - you've got $40 million in cap space, a thin FA market and your #1 WR is Marquis Brown or Miles Boykin - you really not interested in making that move in the 2nd?
Oh sure, you'll come offering a 4th, but I don't need but 2 teams interested to push that bidding up. So now I'm talking with Denver and Arizona and the Jets. I'm asking the Redskins if they really want Hoskins praying for Josh Doctson to finally get his shit together.
There's a market to build there, IMO. You aren't getting a 1st and you may end up having to settle for a 3rd, but I don't think a 2nd is impossible if he can stay on the field and make an impact here. [Reply]
Here's the deal if you want to be very realistic about this...
Henne, Robinson, Watkins, LDT, Xavier Williams, Darron Lee, Sorenson, Lucas and Colquitt are probably all gone after this year...and one if not both of Fuller and Breeland are out too.
Most of them aren't to hard to replace to be honest, the CB position will require a lot of attention though. [Reply]