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Nzoner's Game Room>****The Official 2019 STL Cardinals Thread****
BigRedChief 03:23 AM 01-10-2019
Cardinals announce 25-man Opening Day roster for the 2019 season.
Spoiler!

2019 Opening Day Line up
Spoiler!


Won the Central Division. Won the NLDS.

NLDS Playoff roster
Spoiler!

NLDS Playoff Game 1 starting lineup
Spoiler!

NLCS Game One Starting lineup
Spoiler!



[Reply]
BigRedChief 07:48 AM 05-06-2019
Originally Posted by VAChief:
A series like this, especially early in the year sometimes can help force better personnel decisions. Fowler in center was exposed. Waino more than two times through the lineup is rolling the dice.
Agreed. Maybe Reyes can learn how to thrown a strike, grow up mentally and the 3rd time through the lineup come in for Waino. Would help keep his innings down.
Originally Posted by VAChief:
Also phuck Gregerson taking a roster spot up...I get you paid the turd, but that is Cecil/Holland level stupid. While you are at it jettison Leone as well.
You want to win or try to get some production out of money already spent at the expense of the team. You don't think other players know the best option is not out there? If this player didnt get millions, he's not out there.
[Reply]
jd1020 09:04 AM 05-06-2019
Originally Posted by BigRedChief:
I think your talking about the ball in the gap that Fowler missed. Bader gets to that ball easily. Its still a 1 run game. Having Fowler out there cost us 2 runs. Defense matters.
No. I was talking about a ball that was "in the gap" but it was really more right field that was just barely left and over Martinez's head and before he can get to the ball Bader came flying in from off camera to cut him off and throw it back in. I want to say it was Baez's double to lead off the 8th inning when they scored 6 runs.

It almost doesn't really matter how bad Bader's bat is because your outfield defense is so fucking bad that you need him out there if only to be the guy that gives a shit about running a ball down and getting it back in as fast as possible instead of jogging after it.
[Reply]
Marcellus 01:27 PM 05-07-2019
Back in 1st place. I hope the Cubs enjoyed their stay.

In all seriousness, Miles looked sharp last night.We needed that.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 02:35 PM 05-07-2019
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins:
They need to make the following roster moves

Waino to the pen, Martinez to the rotation
Hudson to the pen, Gomber to the rotation
Wacha to the pen/IL to be determined, Gant to the rotation
Totally on board with the 1st 2 options but I can't take Gant out of the role he's in. His stuff is playing up so much in relief whereas it's pretty average as a starter. I'd rather keep him in the bullpen and frankly I'd probably just send Hudson to Memphis to keep him stretched out and get him to focus on fastball command.

Then you see which one of him and Reyes can eventually kick Wacha out of the rotation as well.

Originally Posted by :
Cut Leone and Gregerson, replace with Ponce de Leon
Leone has options - no reason to cut him. Just demote him and let him figure it out. His stuff is solid and he's cheap. With the way pitchers go down, they'll need him at some point. Gregerson, OTOH, I couldn't give a fuck less about.

Originally Posted by :
Fowler cannot play in center. The ball he didn't get to that helped blow the inning open last night was a 60% catch probability. Maybe he's regained enough value that you can ship him off while only eating a small portion of his remaining salary. Of course, knowing Mo, he'll let him crater his value and kill his value. I think you just have to ride out Bader's bat and take the elite CF defense, especially if you're going to roll with the two oafs to either side of him.
Bader has to start. There's just no other option. And he's not a terrible hitter he's just a flawed one. He has solid pop, has shown an increased willingness to take walks and is a good baserunner. I'd be surprised if he didn't end up being a positive offensive contributor and that's good enough for arguably the best defensive CFer in baseball.

Originally Posted by :
Funny thing is, this team could have done absolutely nothing since July of last year and actually have been in a better shape both short and long-term

Keep Pham and Voit and the offense and defense are both better, plus the team makes the playoffs. Don't sign Miller and the bullpen is no worse off.

It's really like the FO is trying to crater the team.
That's because John Mozeliak is bad at this.
[Reply]
'Hamas' Jenkins 03:44 PM 05-07-2019
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Totally on board with the 1st 2 options but I can't take Gant out of the role he's in. His stuff is playing up so much in relief whereas it's pretty average as a starter. I'd rather keep him in the bullpen and frankly I'd probably just send Hudson to Memphis to keep him stretched out and get him to focus on fastball command.

Then you see which one of him and Reyes can eventually kick Wacha out of the rotation as well.



Leone has options - no reason to cut him. Just demote him and let him figure it out. His stuff is solid and he's cheap. With the way pitchers go down, they'll need him at some point. Gregerson, OTOH, I couldn't give a fuck less about.



Bader has to start. There's just no other option. And he's not a terrible hitter he's just a flawed one. He has solid pop, has shown an increased willingness to take walks and is a good baserunner. I'd be surprised if he didn't end up being a positive offensive contributor and that's good enough for arguably the best defensive CFer in baseball.



That's because John Mozeliak is bad at this.
Are you sure Leone has options? I read differently, but it was random internet chatter.

Regarding Gant: I understand your point, and he is great from the pen, but I wonder if the gulf between an average-slightly above average SP and Wacha is good enough to justify the move.

As far as Hudson goes, I wonder how much you can teach improved fastball command for someone who is already 24 and pitched all through HS and college.
[Reply]
Jewish Rabbi 06:16 PM 05-07-2019
Should have been 4 outs already this inning
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 08:43 AM 05-08-2019
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins:
Are you sure Leone has options? I read differently, but it was random internet chatter.

Regarding Gant: I understand your point, and he is great from the pen, but I wonder if the gulf between an average-slightly above average SP and Wacha is good enough to justify the move.

As far as Hudson goes, I wonder how much you can teach improved fastball command for someone who is already 24 and pitched all through HS and college.
Yeah, I was a little surprised as well. But evidently a couple of his minor league stints since being called up have been rehab stints. So he has 1 option left.

On Gant - put PDL in the rotation if you're that committed to removing Gant. Then hopefully Reyes unfucks himself and bumps PDL shortly thereafter. At that point your July rotation could look like Flaherty, Mikolas, Martinez, Reyes and Gomber.

You also have Helsley as a possibility there if you get him stretched out. Cabrera's probably pitched himself out of consideration but Woodford may well have moved himself towards the top of the heap. His big problem is gonna be that he's not on the 40 man so they'll exhaust all other options before outrighting someone off first.

Then again, they could outright that Gonzalez kid they picked up right before the season started with no real loss to be had. So if Woodford gets his walk rate dialed down a bit, he could prove himself among our better options as a 5th starter.

In either event, I think you're looking at a relatively short-term problem given that the Cards really want Reyes back in the rotation. That being the case, I just wouldn't dick around with Gant.

As for Hudson's fastball command - maybe it's less about commanding his 4-seamer and more about letting it do the work for him. Not an execution issue but an approach one. He has GOT to stop throwing it at the bottom of the zone because it's gonna run low and everyone knows that now. He needs to go full Julian Tavarez and start throwing it at the middle of the zone while letting it's natural run take over.

Because right now Hudson's the most painful start in baseball to watch, Wainwright and Wacha included. That goddamn guy has got to stop nibbling himself to death.
[Reply]
Jewish Rabbi 01:18 PM 05-08-2019
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
My worry right now is that I think the offense will cool somewhat and the SP may absolutely crash. There are some real alarming numbers under the hood here.

The Cardinals did some stuff shortly after LaRussa where they followed a year with unnaturally good string luck on offense with a year of unsustaintably high strand rates with their pitching staff.

The offense looks to have some staying power but the pitching isn't gonna keep stranding 80% of their runners, not when they struggle to generate strikeouts. Hudson, Wacha and Wainwright are borderline MLB starters right now based on their stuff, IMO. Mikolas has better stuff than his results but he just makes too many bad pitches; he's a poor man's Syndergaard right now in that he's just constantly making a bad pitch at a bad time.

The starting pitching to this point has been bad so many folks assume it's gonna improve. Folks - there's a decent chance the results get WORSE. There's a ton not to like about this starting staff.

Personally I think they need to work a lot harder on un-fucking Carlos Martinez and getting his ass in the rotation. They really need any version of the 2015-2017 Carlose Martinez in there.
DJ, this is your fault.
[Reply]
BigRedChief 01:23 PM 05-08-2019
You win 9/10 but then lose 6/7 your not a good team mainly because of your starting pitching.
[Reply]
Miles 03:59 PM 05-08-2019
The team currently has zero quality starts from the pitchers.
[Reply]
VAChief 04:33 PM 05-08-2019
Originally Posted by Miles:
The team currently has zero quality starts from the pitchers.
I knew it was bad, that is telling. I am open to renting MadBum if the Giants decide to offer him up.

He isn’t what he was, but if the cost isn’t too high he would be a great add. His WHIP still looks good and he is still getting a K an inning.
[Reply]
Frazod 04:36 PM 05-08-2019
Originally Posted by VAChief:
I knew it was bad, that is telling. I am open to renting MadBum if the Giants decide to offer him up.

He isn’t what he was, but if the cost isn’t too high he would be a great add. His WHIP still looks good and he is still getting a K an inning.
By that time they’ll be well out of contention, I think.
[Reply]
VAChief 05:54 PM 05-08-2019
Originally Posted by Frazod:
By that time they’ll be well out of contention, I think.
Maybe, but every team in the central has flaws.
[Reply]
Frazod 06:47 PM 05-08-2019
Originally Posted by VAChief:
Maybe, but every team in the central has flaws.
True, but I fear having an undead starting rotation may be a bit of a fatal flaw.
[Reply]
BigRedChief 07:41 PM 05-08-2019
Originally Posted by Miles:
The team currently has zero quality starts from the pitchers.
Mikolas’s in the last 4 games has an era of 2.5 or something like that. Flaherty is a stud. He will get back on track. But, two pitchers don’t make a staff.

We need Reyes to throw some strikes and get back in the rotation. It would also be great if Martinez would get his damn head on straight. He has stud stuff. Get some mental balls dude. Take something to help you focus beyond a couple of innings.
[Reply]
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