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Nzoner's Game Room>Bill Barnwell's AFCW offseason grades
Quesadilla Joe 09:18 AM 05-24-2017
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http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/page...akland-raiders
[Reply]
notorious 03:22 PM 05-24-2017
Lost some gained some. A C+ is the basement, and if Mahomes works it turns into a "fucked the prom queen while finger banging the teacher, valedictorian" A++++++.
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Kman34 03:25 PM 05-24-2017
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud:
Then the bar is set incredibly low.

Any football writer that thinks the Chiefs "lost" or "made a mistake" or that it "Went Wrong" by trading a 1 and a 3 for a guy they believe will be a Franchise QB, is complete and utter moron.

I've seen other writers say it was a "reach" and the Chiefs should have waited to select someone at 27 and they're ****ing morons as well.
This... No fucking way Mahomes is there at 27... Hell I might of gave up more to get there.
[Reply]
DaneMcCloud 03:36 PM 05-24-2017
Originally Posted by notorious:
Lost some gained some. A C+ is the basement, and if Mahomes works it turns into a "fucked the prom queen while finger banging the teacher, valedictorian" A++++++.
The only "loss" this offseason was a quickly declining Dontari Poe, who was replaced by Bennie Logan, who was stellar in a 3-4 scheme in 2015.

Dorsey's history is that the Chiefs drafted at least one impact player that will contribute greatly in 2017 (which doesn't include Mahomes) and quite possibly, two.

2017 will feature the best roster since Dorsey became the GM in 2013 and may end up being the best roster since 1969.

A C+ and "question marks" about drafting a QB in the first round is outright fucking ridiculous and ill-informed.
[Reply]
'Hamas' Jenkins 03:44 PM 05-24-2017
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud:
Then the bar is set incredibly low.

Any football writer that thinks the Chiefs "lost" or "made a mistake" or that it "Went Wrong" by trading a 1 and a 3 for a guy they believe will be a Franchise QB, is complete and utter moron.

I've seen other writers say it was a "reach" and the Chiefs should have waited to select someone at 27 and they're fucking morons as well.
He didn't just grade the Mahomes selection; he looked at the entire offseason.

The Chiefs waited to extend Berry and it cost them millions. They held firm on Poe and saved themselves money. And while Chiefs fans may love the potential of Mahomes and the situation he's been placed in, he's not a guarantee to become an elite quarterback, and if something happens this year where their record drops significantly (whether due to injury or variance), then the price paid for Mahomes changes significantly. All of those must be taken into account when grading a team's moves. Barnwell isn't a Broncos fan; he's a Giants fan, and a pretty dispassionate one at that.

People are grading this offseason based upon the assumption that Mahomes will hit, and while I'm sympathetic to that belief, it is not a certainty. It is also inarguable that they are against the cap, and that it kept them from upgrading other areas on the team. People keep taking short samples of play and extrapolating best case scenarios, forgetting how often those short samples are mirages (Marcus Cooper, Spencer Ware) rather than indicators of true ability.

If you doubt his knowledge, I suggest you find some of the Grantland podcast archives with Robert Mays or his eponymous podcast. It's excellent insight based upon analytics and breaking down actual game film.
[Reply]
Beef Supreme 03:56 PM 05-24-2017
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins:
He didn't just grade the Mahomes selection; he looked at the entire offseason.

The Chiefs waited to extend Berry and it cost them millions.
And yet he put the Berry extension under the "what went right" column. The only thing he put under the "what went wrong" column was the Mahomes pick.

Sounds like he just graded the Mahomes selection to me.
[Reply]
ThaVirus 04:29 PM 05-24-2017
Hamas is Bill Barnwell confirmed.
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keg in kc 04:34 PM 05-24-2017
There is no way in the world the Broncos offseason should be graded higher than the rest of the division's. Not by anybody sane at least.
[Reply]
keg in kc 04:35 PM 05-24-2017
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud:
2017 will feature the best roster since Dorsey became the GM in 2013 and may end up being the best roster since 1969.
Who the fuck are you and when is Dane coming back?!
[Reply]
BlackHelicopters 04:38 PM 05-24-2017
Who the fuck is Bill Barnhill and more importantly, why do we give a fuck what he says?
[Reply]
rabblerouser 04:45 PM 05-24-2017
Originally Posted by theelusiveeightrop:
Who the **** is Bill Barnhill and more importantly, why do we give a **** what he says?
Who gives a fuck and we don't.
[Reply]
DaneMcCloud 04:51 PM 05-24-2017
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins:
The Chiefs waited to extend Berry and it cost them millions.
In the end, it was the correct move to wait to extend Berry. He was one season removed from cancer in 2015 and quite frankly, Berry's best season was 2016.

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins:
They held firm on Poe and saved themselves money.
Anyone that watched the Chiefs in 2015 and 2016 knew that Poe had rapidly declined. That's why I continued to state that there was no way he was getting a multi-year deal like Suh or Fletcher Cox, et al.

Personally, I think that $8 million was too much to hey, Pioli.

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins:
And while Chiefs fans may love the potential of Mahomes and the situation he's been placed in, he's not a guarantee to become an elite quarterback, and if something happens this year where their record drops significantly (whether due to injury or variance), then the price paid for Mahomes changes significantly.
I completely disagree.

Had the Chiefs kept Nick Foles as the heir to Alex Smith, the Chiefs would have continued to win double digit games for the foreseeable future, which wouldn't have put them in a position to get the #2 QB (or IMO, which I've stated since January), the #1 QB in the draft.

As I've stated all year, THIS was the year to trade up and get their QB. The extra 3rd round pick, along with 10 draft choices overall, gave them the luxury that they may not have again for years and certainly not in 2018. So, let's say the Chiefs, for some unknown and unexpected reason, slip to 9-7 or 8-8. Big deal. Their draft pick, that most assume will be in the late 20's moves to the mid to late teens.

They still have their QBOTF and most likely, 7 draft picks next year due to Nick Foles signing with the Eagles.

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins:
People are grading this offseason based upon the assumption that Mahomes will hit, and while I'm sympathetic to that belief, it is not a certainty.
I've watched more video of Mahomes than any QB in the past decade, if not more. I'm of the belief that if given a chance to sit and learn for at least 24 games, he has a chance to be a very, very good QB. His father and godfather are former professional athletes, he's a clean prospect off the field and has every tool necessary for a stellar NFL career.

Any player drafted in the NFL can bust. There's absolutely no doubt about it. But the scale is far more weighted in the direction of an elite QB than a draft bust in regards to Mahomes.

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins:
It is also inarguable that they are against the cap, and that it kept them from upgrading other areas on the team. People keep taking short samples of play and extrapolating best case scenarios, forgetting how often those short samples are mirages (Marcus Cooper, Spencer Ware) rather than indicators of true ability.
Sure, they're up against the cap but most of that falls off in 2018, so it's really not a big deal. Plus, Dorsey really hasn't had much luck with "high priced" free agents (Maclin, Bowe) or even mid-tier guys Avery, Fasano, Dunta Robinson, Joe Mays, et al. Instead, Dorsey has improved this roster by constantly churning the bottom of the 53 through waiver-wire acquisitions, the Practice Squad and the draft.

Even if the Chiefs had an abundance of cap space in 2017, it's more likely that it would be spent on extending players like Dee Ford and not going "all in" on a guy like Desean Watson or Ron Leary. And in all honesty, there were very, very few high priced free agents that would have upgraded this defense (and while BB obviously loves Gilmore, I'm not sold he's anything more than a #2) and even fewer that would have been an upgrade to the offense.

My favorite offseason free agency acquisition by the Chiefs is Gavin Escobar, who really flew under the radar despite being a 2nd round pick by Dallas 4 years ago. He has talent and size and has the opportunity to be the #2 TE on the roster.

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins:
If you doubt his knowledge, I suggest you find some of the Grantland podcast archives with Robert Mays or his eponymous podcast. It's excellent insight based upon analytics and breaking down actual game film.
I'll check it out when time permits. I've only watched ESPN in the past decade when forced (KU basketball, Royals, Chiefs, MNF) and I haven't had their website bookmarked in probably 15 years.
[Reply]
BlackOp 05:42 PM 05-24-2017
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud:

As I've stated all year, THIS was the year to trade up and get their QB. The extra 3rd round pick, along with 10 draft choices overall, gave them the luxury that they may not have again for years and certainly not in 2018. So, let's say the Chiefs, for some unknown and unexpected reason, slip to 9-7 or 8-8. Big deal. Their draft pick, that most assume will be in the late 20's moves to the mid to late teens.
You dont see too many 12-4 teams with the opportunity to draft the actual franchise (potential) QB they wanted at #10.

It was a slick move by Dorsey....and could be a future SB winning one. Once Brady/Roethlisberger retire...the AFC will be wide open. That should be right around the time Mahomes is (or isnt) a franchise QB.
[Reply]
Chiefshrink 06:39 PM 05-24-2017
Like the draft you can't grade offseason moves until at least mid-season at least with FA moves anyway. It's all speculation at this point.
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Chiefshrink 06:45 PM 05-24-2017
Originally Posted by BlackOp:
You dont see too many 12-4 teams with the opportunity to draft the actual franchise (potential) QB they wanted at #10.

It was a slick move by Dorsey....and could be a future SB winning one. Once Brady/Roethlisberger retire...the AFC will be wide open. That should be right around the time Mahomes is (or isnt) a franchise QB.
When Nick Foles was not resigned that was a tell for sure that they definitely liked a QB in this draft.
[Reply]
DaneMcCloud 06:48 PM 05-24-2017
Originally Posted by Chiefshrink:
When Nick Foles was not resigned that was a tell for sure that they definitely liked a QB in this draft.
:-)

The Chiefs tried to re-sign Foles at a lower rate but he chose Philly instead.
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