More trade news: The #Chiefs are deep in talks with the #49ers on a trade for star pass-rusher Dee Ford, sources say. Things have escalated and this could get done by the end of the night. Ford needs to work out a new contract with SF, which is a big piece of this.
Originally Posted by BlackOp:
Chiefs currently have $30+ million in the 2019 safety position...one of which may or may not even be able to play.
They just lost both starting pass rushers that collectively (along with Jones) led the NFL in sacks.
I'm not seeing the rush to ship Ford off either...they likely would have netted a 3rd round comp...which is the same value as a 2020 2nd. It created another draft hole to fill...the could have used another year of his services.
I was listening to a podcast where it was explained to me that if the Chiefs wanted to get on the ball, get ahead of the curve, and get Chris Jones extended, then Dee Ford HAD to go. Once he was tagged and it was let known to him and his agent that the Chiefs were shopping him, he HAD to be moved, great deal or not.
Why? Because if the Chiefs extended Jones while playing Ford on the tag, and assuming Ford had another good year? His price would have been completely unattainable and in my opinion unrealistic. AND, we would have been back in the same boat we were in with Houston. Unless we wanted to tag him again( and develop a reputation as a bunch of player-unfriendly cock-knockers ), our options would have been shit. [Reply]
Originally Posted by BlackOp:
Chiefs currently have $30+ million in the 2019 safety position...one of which may or may not even be able to play.
They just lost both starting pass rushers that collectively (along with Jones) led the NFL in sacks.
I'm not seeing the rush to ship Ford off either...they likely would have netted a 3rd round comp...which is the same value as a 2020 2nd. It created another draft hole to fill...they could have used another year of his services.
All I can assume is Veach has something in place to offset this loss? KC gained $16 mil...
Even if SF wins the SB there is no way their 2nd in 2020 is equal to a 3rd rd comp pick. Not by a mile. [Reply]
Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19:
In theory sure, but will it ever be harder than it was with that 2018 defense? It’s fair to wonder.
If they’re looking to move to a business model where they rely heavy on drafting and developing players through great coaching, I think that’s a fine idea. Especially on defense. It sounds like they’re going to try to manage these cap hits on guys like Hill efficiently by at least even loading them, if not front.
Also, you have to remember that once Mahomes does get paid, other QBs will get more. Even if they don’t deserve it, they just will because if they hit the open market and are any good at all, they’d get crazy money there (like Cousins).
So if Mahomes signs for $35M per year next season, you can bet that the Mayfield’s and Watson’s of the world can probably get $36M if they want it.
I don't think we're necessarily disagreeing. I think Im just more impatient than you. Seeing how close we got last year had me so hyped up about what we can do if we fix up the defense. And as of now we added a safety which I like but got rid of our 2 best players who play premium pass rushers and all we have to show for that is a 2020 draft pick and cap space which I really don't care about. I understand that we had to let one of them go, but to let both go and now we either have to sign 2nd tier pass rushers or somehow stumble onto 2 of them in the draft just seems like a recipe for failure. If we don't trade for a star corner or pass rusher, this free agency will have been a disappointment in my eyes and a waste of one of Mahomes best years (in terms of contract value). [Reply]
Originally Posted by -King-:
This should be a **** it...we're all in year like the Rams had last off season and unless we make big trades the next couple days, I don't see major improvements happening defensively.
We had huge needs at safety, two CB's, and our pass rushers were going to carry huge cap numbers.
We can address safety in free agency. There really is no one in free agency to start at CB or DE. There isn't anyone worth signing for starter money.
We can perhaps trade for a CB or DE. We can draft the two positions.
There are no answers in free agency for CB or DE other than Flowers who basically got what Houston was making (and IMO Houston is a better player.) [Reply]
Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Hate:
I was listening to a podcast where it was explained to me that if the Chiefs wanted to get on the ball, get ahead of the curve, and get Chris Jones extended, then Dee Ford HAD to go. Once he was tagged and it was let known to him and his agent that the Chiefs were shopping him, he HAD to be moved, great deal or not.
Why? Because if the Chiefs extended Jones while playing Ford on the tag, and assuming Ford had another good year? His price would have been completely unattainable and in my opinion unrealistic. AND, we would have been back in the same boat we were in with Houston. Unless we wanted to tag him again( and develop a reputation as a bunch of player-unfriendly cock-knockers ), our options would have been shit.
Yeah we had to dump Ford before he had another good year. :-) [Reply]
Originally Posted by -King-:
I don't think we're necessarily disagreeing. I think Im just more impatient than you. Seeing how close we got last year had me so hyped up about what we can do if we fix up the defense. And as of now we added a safety which I like but got rid of our 2 best players who play premium pass rushers and all we have to show for that is a 2020 draft pick and cap space which I really don't care about. I understand that we had to let one of them go, but to let both go and now we either have to sign 2nd tier pass rushers or somehow stumble onto 2 of them in the draft just seems like a recipe for failure. If we don't trade for a star corner or pass rusher, this free agency will have been a disappointment in my eyes and a waste of one of Mahomes best years (in terms of contract value).
Not saying pass rush isn't important, it absolutely is but it seems like with Spags' scheme it's more about filling gaps, stopping the run and bringing safeties and linebackers down in the box to blitz off the edge or up the a-gap. I'm not sure Ford was a great fit in that scheme.
We're going to rely less on 3 or 4 man rushing fronts and move into a far more aggressive, attacking defense. [Reply]
What people aren't considering is that we gave a low 1st round pick for Ford, got only one good year out of him, and got a 2nd round pick back in compensation.
That's damned good value for a one dimensional player with one good year... [Reply]
Originally Posted by cdcox:
Yeah we had to dump Ford before he had another good year. :-)
I'm not selling the position short for a gamble on a one season glory-shot, especially when my chances for season ending injury hover at 50/50. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Hate:
I'm not selling the position short for a gamble on a one season glory-shot, especially when my chances for season ending injury hover at 50/50.
Originally Posted by New World Order:
Not saying pass rush isn't important, it absolutely is but it seems like with Spags' scheme it's more about filling gaps, stopping the run and bringing safeties and linebackers down in the box to blitz off the edge or up the a-gap. I'm not sure Ford was a great fit in that scheme.
We're going to rely less on 3 or 4 man rushing fronts and move into a far more aggressive, attacking defense.
This much seems true, for better or worse.
If we can find a set of pass rushers that fit his defense like Strahan, Osi, and Tuck.... well that’d be awesome. It’d be perfect. But I don’t think they viewed Dee as that kind of fit at all. And I don’t think they were ever keeping Houston at that price tag. [Reply]
So let me get this straight. Trading Ford for a 2nd this year makes it basically a 3rd this year, but somehow getting a 3rd round comp pick for him that we use in the next years draft isnt basically a 4th? Thats just fucking stupid. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Rausch:
What people aren't considering is that we gave a low 1st round pick for Ford, got only one good year out of him, and got a 2nd round pick back in compensation.
That's damned good value for a one dimensional player with one good year...
You know whats really bad value? The 5 year 88 million contract those idiots gave him. Lol [Reply]
Originally Posted by -King-:
I don't think we're necessarily disagreeing. I think Im just more impatient than you. Seeing how close we got last year had me so hyped up about what we can do if we fix up the defense. And as of now we added a safety which I like but got rid of our 2 best players who play premium pass rushers and all we have to show for that is a 2020 draft pick and cap space which I really don't care about. I understand that we had to let one of them go, but to let both go and now we either have to sign 2nd tier pass rushers or somehow stumble onto 2 of them in the draft just seems like a recipe for failure. If we don't trade for a star corner or pass rusher, this free agency will have been a disappointment in my eyes and a waste of one of Mahomes best years (in terms of contract value).
Yeah I get it for sure. There’s a lot of unknown factors and things that need to happen.
If they use that money that has been freed up properly, it could mean much greater overall depth around the roster to make it through a full season bound to have some injuries within it. That’d be great for this defense, which as previously mentioned, will blitz a lot more than we saw in the past and thus be less dependent on great individual pass rushers.
We need to get a deep unit that plays together, trusts each other, and just flies around doing their assignments. If they can get that, they will be just fine when it’s all said and done. [Reply]
