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The Lounge>Upgrading the offensive line (...or not?)
RealSNR 05:06 PM 02-09-2019
Due to the nature of large threads, several days ago the Spagnuolo thread kind of veered off for awhile into a discussion about offensive line. I thought an interesting conversation got going while we were on the subject of drafting/developing players cheaply when we Mahomes eventually needs to get paid and how we can get a head start on gaining some of that flexibility.

These are the Chiefs OL who are 2019 free agents:

Mitch Morse
Jordan Devey
Jeff Allen

If we just let them walk, we'd be left with:

Austin Reiter
Jimmy Murray
Kahlil McKenzie
Andrew Wylie
Eric Fisher
Mitch Schwartz
Cam Erving
LDT

Plus the following dudes from the practice squad if you want to be "official":

Ryan Hunter
Pace Murphy

How much investment in OL do you think is optimal? Are you satisfied with the developmental guys on the roster, or would you go so far to use even a 2nd rounder to replace Morse? Would you take it a step further and also invest in finding a better LG or even backup OT?
[Reply]
OKchiefs 10:23 AM 02-10-2019
- OL is soft. They routinely get dominated in short yardage situations.
- LDT has routinely been unable to stay healthy. We had better have solid depth behind him.
- Center obviously needs to be addressed. Morse absolutely should not be signed. We need depth and competition here.
- Tackle is pretty set, but we have zero depth behind Fisher and Schwartz.
[Reply]
Sweet Daddy Hate 10:30 AM 02-10-2019
Originally Posted by Chiefshrink:
Your status quo position here will eventually get our QB injured against the better defenses IMHO. You need to securely protect your Franchise Investment at all costs IF you still want to compete for a SB.:-)
We PLAYED the better defenses this year and came away with nary a limp. The line needs to be solid and maintain a pocket, it doesn't need to open big holes and grade roads because we simply don't run that kind of offense, for better or worse.

Originally Posted by OKchiefs:
- OL is soft. They routinely get dominated in short yardage situations.
- LDT has routinely been unable to stay healthy. We had better have solid depth behind him.
- Center obviously needs to be addressed. Morse absolutely should not be signed. We need depth and competition here.
- Tackle is pretty set, but we have zero depth behind Fisher and Schwartz.
These are solid points. Depth is a big concern and I believe we can address that some this season after we have spent the major capital on our defense. If they DO elect to draft a fatty in round 3, then Center needs to be the first fatty up.
[Reply]
oldman 10:37 AM 02-10-2019
I don't see us signing Morse or Allen. Morse is a concussion away from the end of a career and Allen didn't show me much (again). Devey is OK for depth. Reiter is the starting C next year and Wylie goes to LG, at least for right now. I'd like to see what we have in McKenzie and Murray before we spend too much draft capital. I believe we had Murray at C last season. Hunter could develop into a pretty good T.
[Reply]
Buckweath 10:43 AM 02-10-2019
Originally Posted by Chiefshrink:
Your status quo position here will eventually get our QB injured against the better defenses IMHO. You need to securely protect your Franchise Investment at all costs IF you still want to compete for a SB.:-)
That's why I say they should continually invest in the Oline and this year by drafting a center in the 2nd or 3rd round. Or maybe draft a versatile C/G in the 3rd/4th round if you think Reiter can hold the C starting position next year.

But really, the Oline was good this year. Just don't take it for granted.
[Reply]
Chiefshrink 10:46 AM 02-10-2019
Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Hate:
We PLAYED the better defenses this year and came away with nary a limp. The line needs to be solid and maintain a pocket, it doesn't need to open big holes and grade roads because we simply don't run that kind of offense, for better or worse.
Your "football eyes" are lacking then. The blueprint is now out there to significantly slow Pat down and that is interior d-line pressure because the Chiefs interior o-line is weak. Did you not see the interior d-line pressure up the middle from the Ravens,Pats etc... that severely slowed Pat down to the point of potentially injuring his knee when he came away limping for awhile ? I assure the other AFC west teams will load up on interior d-linemen as time goes on and this year especially since the draft is deep for interior d-linemen

You have to be able to run the ball especially in the playoffs against the better defenses to keep them honest and protect your QB. Hence the Pats. We cannot run at will when needed because we are not physical enough to run or pass protect against the better defenses.
[Reply]
Chiefshrink 10:52 AM 02-10-2019
Originally Posted by Buckweath:
That's why I say they should continually invest in the Oline and this year by drafting a center in the 2nd or 3rd round. Or maybe draft a versatile C/G in the 3rd/4th round if you think Reiter can hold the C starting position next year.
Agreed.

Originally Posted by Buckweath:
But really, the Oline was good this year. Just don't take it for granted.
With all due respect I will agree to a point and that point is they were good against mediocre to poor defenses, but against the better more physical defenses they struggled to run and protect Pat. Hence the Ravens, Hawks and Pats.
[Reply]
Chiefshrink 10:55 AM 02-10-2019
Originally Posted by oldman:
I don't see us signing Morse or Allen. Morse is a concussion away from the end of a career and Allen didn't show me much (again). Devey is OK for depth. Reiter is the starting C next year and Wylie goes to LG, at least for right now. I'd like to see what we have in McKenzie and Murray before we spend too much draft capital. I believe we had Murray at C last season. Hunter could develop into a pretty good T.
Agreed. And this is what we don't know for now is what type of real nasty potential do we have in our "depth bucket".:-)
[Reply]
Mecca 10:57 AM 02-10-2019
The Patriots got interior pressure by outsmarting the linemen. It had nothing to do with the guys sucking. Morse looked like a total dipshit on several plays.

They have a built a finesse line, they're going to struggle with the big physical style teams. just how it is. Also don't know what everyone is expecting here, Fisher is here because of his deal, so is LDT, no reason to move Schwartz and Wylie played well..

Morse is likely out and they have in house guys to compete for that, they'll probably take a lineman late like usual but that's it.
[Reply]
Chief Roundup 11:00 AM 02-10-2019
Originally Posted by scho63:
Are you serious? :-)

We have so many holes on defense and your second round pick is a fat whitey center?

We can get a good center in the 4th or 5th round at the very least
Yeah I am serious. I know we have needs all over the D, but we now have Reiter as our starter with Erving as his backup. :-) Since we don't have a 4th round pick we would be have to pick on in the 5th and by then you are so deep into that C position that there is not going to be much if any difference between the 5th and an UDFA. We definitely need to upgrade the Defense but we need to keep Mahomes healthy and upright.
[Reply]
Sweet Daddy Hate 11:00 AM 02-10-2019
Originally Posted by Chiefshrink:
Your "football eyes" are lacking then. The blueprint is now out there to significantly slow Pat down and that is interior d-line pressure because the Chiefs interior o-line is weak. Did you not see the interior d-line pressure up the middle from the Ravens,Pats etc... that severely slowed Pat down to the point of potentially injuring his knee when he came away limping for awhile ? I assure the other AFC west teams will load up on interior d-linemen as time goes on and this year especially since the draft is deep for interior d-linemen

You have to be able to run the ball especially in the playoffs against the better defenses to keep them honest and protect your QB. Hence the Pats. We cannot run at will when needed because we are not physical enough to run or pass protect against the better defenses.
Yes indeed I saw that so WHY are you pimping the portion of the line responsible for that mess? With LDT and Morse out you have two tackles and garbage. Garbage that opened up the middle like Bob Barker and said, "COME ON DOWN"!

And since were not a run-first team, I doubt that Reid and Veach are looking for linemen that excel in both pass protection AND opening holes. They want the best pass-pro guys they can get, because that's what we do.
[Reply]
Chiefshrink 11:06 AM 02-10-2019
Originally Posted by Mecca:
The Patriots got interior pressure by outsmarting the linemen. It had nothing to do with the guys sucking. Morse looked like a total dipshit on several plays.

They have a built a finesse line, they're going to struggle with the big physical style teams. just how it is. Also don't know what everyone is expecting here, Fisher is here because of his deal, so is LDT, no reason to move Schwartz and Wylie played well..

Morse is likely out and they have in house guys to compete for that, they'll probably take a lineman late like usual but that's it.
In order for your "clever plans" to work in the game of football especially in the trenches you still have to be more quick/physical to pull them off.:-)
[Reply]
Chiefshrink 11:12 AM 02-10-2019
Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Hate:
Yes indeed I saw that so WHY are you pimping the portion of the line responsible for that mess? With LDT and Morse out you have two tackles and garbage. Garbage that opened up the middle like Bob Barker and said, "COME ON DOWN"!
Your reading comprehension and football eyes are severely lacking my friend. Bob Barker did not happen when Reiter and Wylie were filling in just so you know. However, Bob Barker occurred on a regular basis when Morse and LDT returned to the lineup especially against the better defenses and is my point about pimping Reiter and Wylie.:-)
[Reply]
Sweet Daddy Hate 11:16 AM 02-10-2019
Welp, then I hope for your sake that Reiter and Wylie are all-stars in the making because I don't see the Chiefs getting down at the draft table with many 0-fatties this year.
[Reply]
T-post Tom 11:20 AM 02-10-2019
KC was 5th best in sacks allowed per game.
[Reply]
Chiefshrink 11:21 AM 02-10-2019
Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Hate:
Welp, then I hope for your Mahomes sake
FYP
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