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The Lounge>The Myth that Nelson Sucks
staylor26 04:56 PM 10-22-2018
Simply put, it’s wrong.

Originally Posted by :
BJ Kissel
BJ Kissel
@ChiefsReporter

33m
#Chiefs CB Steven Nelson (92.7 PFF Overall Grade) was
@PFF
's top-graded player last night. He was targeted six times and only allowed two receptions for 33 yards.

Over the past six games, Nelson has only allowed 264 yards while being targeted 42 times.

He’s having a pretty good season, and at least half of CP thinks he sucks. It’s a shame.
[Reply]
htismaqe 11:13 AM 11-05-2018
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Speaks made a nice play on that inside trap looking play where he flowed down the line, no doubt (though if my memory serves, Chubb still gained a handful of yards there because poor push in the middle). He also did a good job of staying in front of Johnson later in the game on that 4th down and waiting for help to finish the play.

But Mayfield dropped back 42 times yesterday with the worst pair of tackles in the league protecting him and Speaks was getting stood up head to head damn near every time.

Speaks, like the rest of the box defenders, was reactive most of the day. They made the job a hell of a lot harder on the secondary than needed and the secondary stood tall for the most part. He didn't 'shut down' the run on those drives; they still gained okay yardage in between incomplete passes from Mayfield. Moreover, Bailey had his only real standout play of the game early on as well when he tagged Chubb (IIRC) at the line of scrimmage and even Hitchens did an okay job early on so even on those drives, Speaks didn't do anything 'single-handedly'.

Nobody loses every time, but Speaks was completely ineffective as a pass rusher, got absolutely abused in coverage a time or two and was...fine...as a run defender. He did not play well yesterday and he damn sure didn't play better than Nelson.
Speaks is playing out of position, we all know it. People expecting him to get a bunch of sacks standing up are deluding themselves. And the Browns line played pretty decent, they shut down Ford pretty much all day too.

This defense FINALLY showed up against the run and Speaks was a big (actually, probably the biggest) part of that. The only play Speaks really got burned on was the flat pass to Duke Johnson that went for 23 and he got picked at the line by Landry, which could have arguably been OPI. He played a solid, but unspectacular, game and was the most consistent defender I saw out there.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 11:23 AM 11-05-2018
They stood up against the run? They were over 4 yards/carry.

And I'm not blaming Speaks for being out of position - he clearly is. As I said last week, I appreciate his effort and his motor is impressive. But the bottom line is that he's being asked to do something he's not equipped to do and it shows in his production. He was a BAD outside linebacker yesterday.

Should he have been an outside linebacker? No - but he is due to attrition and I'm guessing a long-term plan that has him taking some lumps this season to learn and grow for the future. That speaks to the 'pick' with Landry - he has to know better not than to try to get undernearth Landry there and he'll learn that with experience. But he still failed due to a combination of inexperience and substandard athleticism.

You don't grade him on a curve. The dude wasn't good yesterday. I think he was probably the LEAST effective player on the field. That's not entirely his fault because his body type just isn't built for this, but it is what it is.
[Reply]
O.city 11:24 AM 11-05-2018
They held CHubb under 4 ypc. I don't really care about the other rushes.
[Reply]
htismaqe 11:37 AM 11-05-2018
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
They stood up against the run? They were over 4 yards/carry.

And I'm not blaming Speaks for being out of position - he clearly is. As I said last week, I appreciate his effort and his motor is impressive. But the bottom line is that he's being asked to do something he's not equipped to do and it shows in his production. He was a BAD outside linebacker yesterday.

Should he have been an outside linebacker? No - but he is due to attrition and I'm guessing a long-term plan that has him taking some lumps this season to learn and grow for the future. That speaks to the 'pick' with Landry - he has to know better not than to try to get undernearth Landry there and he'll learn that with experience. But he still failed due to a combination of inexperience and substandard athleticism.

You don't grade him on a curve. The dude wasn't good yesterday. I think he was probably the LEAST effective player on the field. That's not entirely his fault because his body type just isn't built for this, but it is what it is.
Agree to disagree then. If you thought Speaks was the least effective player on the field, we didn't watch the same game. Not really much more needs to be said.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 11:45 AM 11-05-2018
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
Agree to disagree then. If you thought Speaks was the least effective player on the field, we didn't watch the same game. Not really much more needs to be said.
Fair enough.

(Though surely the caveat 'apart from Reggie Ragland' went without saying... :-) )
[Reply]
htismaqe 11:46 AM 11-05-2018
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Fair enough.

(Though surely the caveat 'apart from Reggie Ragland' went without saying... :-) )
DOD didn't get a lot of snaps but he made a couple of pretty egregious mistakes. I'll leave it there.
[Reply]
Buckweath 11:49 AM 11-05-2018
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
Just got done watching the All 22 actually and he was out of position a TON. He just wasn't victimized on it but a couple of times.

He's the most bipolar player on the defense. He's great for a couple of plays and then flat awful for 1 or 2 more.
I get that everyone is entitled to their opinion but why do I always have to see those clueless opinions like yours, this time, on this forum.

I watched the full game. Nelson was excellent yesterday.

PFF ranked him top 2 defensive player for the Chiefs yesterday with Kendall Fuller, with a passer rating less than 48 when targeted.

Indeed, he was very good and showed on the screen, in a good way, many times.
[Reply]
Marcellus 11:50 AM 11-05-2018
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
DOD didn't get a lot of snaps but he made a couple of pretty egregious mistakes. I'll leave it there.
He had his worst game yesterday for sure.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 11:51 AM 11-05-2018
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
DOD didn't get a lot of snaps but he made a couple of pretty egregious mistakes. I'll leave it there.
Yeah, sub guys don't really factor into my calculus on stuff like that; if you don't play 40% of the snaps, it's hard to really lump you in with guys playing 70%+.

But man he got roasted on that 3rd down play over the middle; pretty sure it was a 3rd. He looked like he got caught completely off guard by the possibility of a simple crossing route - flat footed as hell.

I'm not sure what he thought his responsibility was there but that's EXACTLY the kind of play he can make on this defense that could make him hugely valuable and he just wasn't ready for it.

This was the first game he's been involved in where I don't remember him coming up with an impact play. He had a hold where he got fooled a bit by the route and then that play over the middle. That's about the extent of his contributions I can recall. Definitely a bit of a step-back game for DoD.

But we're gonna need to keep sending him out there because he's the only chance we have to keep James White from going off for 200 total yards and 3 scores in the post-season. He needs to learn.
[Reply]
htismaqe 11:54 AM 11-05-2018
Originally Posted by Buckweath:
I get that everyone is entitled to their opinion but why do I always have to see those clueless opinions like yours, this time, on this forum.

I watched the full game. Nelson was excellent yesterday.

PFF ranked him top 2 defensive player for the Chiefs yesterday with Kendall Fuller, with a passer rating less than 48 when targeted.

Indeed, he was very good and showed on the screen, in a good way, many times.
I'm clueless. :-)

Like I said, he's bipolar. I never said he sucked. But for all of the great plays he makes, he gives up 1 or 2 CRIPPLING plays every game or commits a terrible penalty.

Believe whatever you want. I really don't care. I watched the game twice this morning, I know EXACTLY what I was watching.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 11:55 AM 11-05-2018
Originally Posted by Buckweath:
I watched the full game. Nelson was excellent yesterday.

PFF ranked him top 2 defensive player for the Chiefs yesterday with Kendall Fuller, with a passer rating less than 48 when targeted.

Indeed, he was very good and showed on the screen, in a good way, many times.
Fuller had an understated good game yesterday. He never really jumped off the screen but he was on Landry a lot and that dude's a tough cover. They kept Landry well below what I'd have expected given the relatively poor pass rush and our problems over the middle.

That game script suggested a big day from Landry and Fuller was a large part of why that didn't come together for him.
[Reply]
htismaqe 11:56 AM 11-05-2018
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Fuller had an understated good game yesterday. He never really jumped off the screen but he was on Landry a lot and that dude's a tough cover. They kept Landry well below what I'd have expected given the relatively poor pass rush and our problems over the middle.

That game script suggested a big day from Landry and Fuller was a large part of why that didn't come together for him.
Yep. Fuller probably had his best game as a Chief honestly. He was lockdown most of the day.
[Reply]
HemiEd 12:00 PM 11-05-2018
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Now now, that's not possible. I've been told that Sutton is retarded and makes everyone worse with his cockamamie schemes that are just too complicated to understand.
Several bits of evidence are starting to show the opposite. :-)

Like how Peters has changed is the most recent one. Just maybe Reid sees something in him that is the above the heads of some of us fans.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 12:06 PM 11-05-2018
Originally Posted by HemiEd:
Several bits of evidence are starting to show the opposite. :-)

Like how Peters has changed is the most recent one. Just maybe Reid sees something in him that is the above the heads of some of us fans.
Scandrick is a great example. That dude looked DONE last season and he's been, at worst, a credible starting CB this year despite being clearly past his physical peak.

He's being put in positions to succeed and being used in a manner that allows him to do so. Sean Smith was the best previous example and the whole slew of safeties he's found ways to make effective as well.

That's why when Parker shits himself, I'm not going to blame Sutton's scheme or coaching. This is a group of coaches - from Sutton to Harris to Thomas - who have demonstrated that they can coach up DBs.

Where Sutton IS starting to get on my nerves, however, is the fact that he refuses to move on from Parker. I let it slide when Murray was hurt but now Murray's healthy and it's Lucas that's losing snaps. And when Dan comes back, I'm worried it will be at the expense of Lucas/Murray. That's not okay.

When you don't have better options due to injury, I'm not going to blame Parker stepping on his dick on you. But when you DO have better options and you're still sending Parker out there to step on said dick, you get to own that.

C'mon Bob - lets get that taken care of.
[Reply]
htismaqe 12:08 PM 11-05-2018
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Scandrick is a great example. That dude looked DONE last season and he's been, at worst, a credible starting CB this year despite being clearly past his physical peak.

He's being put in positions to succeed and being used in a manner that allows him to do so. Sean Smith was the best previous example and the whole slew of safeties he's found ways to make effective as well.

That's why when Parker shits himself, I'm not going to blame Sutton's scheme or coaching. This is a group of coaches - from Sutton to Harris to Thomas - who have demonstrated that they can coach up DBs.

Where Sutton IS starting to get on my nerves, however, is the fact that he refuses to move on from Parker. I let it slide when Murray was hurt but now Murray's healthy and it's Lucas that's losing snaps. And when Dan comes back, I'm worried it will be at the expense of Lucas/Murray. That's not okay.

When you don't have better options due to injury, I'm not going to blame Parker stepping on his dick on you. But when you DO have better options and you're still sending Parker out there to step on said dick, you get to own that.

C'mon Bob - lets get that taken care of.
:-)
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