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Nzoner's Game Room>***NON-POLITICAL COVID-19 Discussion Thread***
JakeF 10:28 PM 02-26-2020
A couple of reminders...

Originally Posted by Bwana:
Once again, don't come in this thread with some kind of political agenda, or you will be shown the door. If you want to go that route, there is a thread about this in DC.
Originally Posted by Dartgod:
People, there is a lot of good information in this thread, let's try to keep the petty bickering to a minimum.

We all have varying opinions about the impact of this, the numbers, etc. We will all never agree with each other. But we can all keep it civil.

Thanks!

Click here for the original OP:

Spoiler!

[Reply]
'Hamas' Jenkins 09:56 AM 04-21-2020
Originally Posted by O.city:
The Swedish one seems to be the best setup I can find so far.
They all have issues. I know that people are dying for information, but going to the press with pre-prints is malpractice right now. It's leading to people without scientific knowledge drawing uninformed conclusions regarding a situation that is still highly uncertain.

The Swedish blood donor study I saw was 100 people. Unless we're talking about different studies, that sample is far too low to draw conclusions from.

There is still a lot we don't know and although infections are plateauing, we haven't descended the peak. We need to take this time to learn and let the infection rate continue to drop, not throw more kindling on the fire.
[Reply]
RollChiefsRoll 09:59 AM 04-21-2020
Originally Posted by Mecca:


To add to this, though, "John" said that despite the sanitation standards, there are no social distancing guidelines at shows even before they step into the ring so he's asking the government to shut down the tapings so they can adhere to stay-at-home orders.


This is such a great look there WWE.
Cena off the top rope!
[Reply]
petegz28 10:00 AM 04-21-2020
NY's initial report is at 481 for new deaths. They did do two reports yesterday that took them to 631 total. This is the I think the 3rd bit at least the 2nd day in a row where their initial report for new deaths was under 500.

You can spin this any way you wish but the bottom line is the numbers are significantly lower than they were last week and it appears to be continuing to go down.
[Reply]
O.city 10:02 AM 04-21-2020
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins:
They all have issues. I know that people are dying for information, but going to the press with pre-prints is malpractice right now. It's leading to people without scientific knowledge drawing uninformed conclusions regarding a situation that is still highly uncertain.

The Swedish blood donor study I saw was 100 people. Unless we're talking about different studies, that sample is far too low to draw conclusions from.

There is still a lot we don't know and although infections are plateauing, we haven't descended the peak. We need to take this time to learn and let the infection rate continue to drop, not throw more kindling on the fire.
Problem I see is we don't really know if they're peaking. It's all a damn circus.

Even if you wait for it to go down, it's likely to ramp up again.

I may be confusing the studies as I thought it was a much larger sample size.
[Reply]
dirk digler 10:16 AM 04-21-2020
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.16.20065920v1


Outcomes of hydroxychloroquine usage in United States veterans hospitalized with Covid-19

Originally Posted by :
Abstract BACKGROUND: Despite limited and conflicting data on the use of hydroxychloroquine in patients with Covid-19, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration has authorized the emergency use of this drug when clinical trials are unavailable or infeasible. Hydroxychloroquine, alone or in combination with azithromycin, is being widely used in Covid-19 therapy based on anecdotal and limited observational evidence.

METHODS: We performed a retrospective analysis of data from patients hospitalized with confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infection in all United States Veterans Health Administration medical centers until April 11, 2020. Patients were categorized based on their exposure to hydroxychloroquine alone (HC) or with azithromycin (HC+AZ) as treatments in addition to standard supportive management for Covid-19. The two primary outcomes were death and the need for mechanical ventilation. We determined the association between treatment and the primary outcomes using competing risk hazard regression adjusting for clinical characteristics via propensity scores. Discharge and death were taken into account as competing risks and subdistribution hazard ratios are presented.

RESULTS: A total of 368 patients were evaluated (HC, n=97; HC+AZ, n=113; no HC, n=158). Rates of death in the HC, HC+AZ, and no HC groups were 27.8%, 22.1%, 11.4%, respectively. Rates of ventilation in the HC, HC+AZ, and no HC groups were 13.3%, 6.9%, 14.1%, respectively. Compared to the no HC group, the risk of death from any cause was higher in the HC group (adjusted hazard ratio, 2.61; 95% CI, 1.10 to 6.17; P=0.03) but not in the HC+AZ group (adjusted hazard ratio, 1.14; 95% CI, 0.56 to 2.32; P=0.72). The risk of ventilation was similar in the HC group (adjusted hazard ratio, 1.43; 95% CI, 0.53 to 3.79; P=0.48) and in the HC+AZ group (adjusted hazard ratio, 0.43; 95% CI, 0.16 to 1.12; P=0.09), compared to the no HC group.

CONCLUSIONS: In this study, we found no evidence that use of hydroxychloroquine, either with or without azithromycin, reduced the risk of mechanical ventilation in patients hospitalized with Covid-19. An association of increased overall mortality was identified in patients treated with hydroxychloroquine alone. These findings highlight the importance of awaiting the results of ongoing prospective, randomized, controlled studies before widespread adoption of these drugs.

[Reply]
tk13 10:18 AM 04-21-2020
Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88:
So you are denying that the #of daily cases in Georgia has leveled off?

You would be incorrect if yes.

You might want to check your facts before continuing to babble on without evidence to support your claims.

Link: https://dph.georgia.gov/covid-19-daily-status-report
Where do I say that? That's what people who are losing an argument do, they change the subject. I never, ever said any such thing. You just changed the focus of the argument.

You were praising Georgia as a state who basically wasn't having any issues even though they were late on a stay-at-home order. I corrected you and mentioned that there's a place in Georgia that's one of the biggest hotspots in America. And frankly for a large portion of this time the state has been at or near the top 10 in cases. Hardly an example of an area who is hitting it out of the park right now.

And even on top of that, in the very article you posted, they had 2 of their top 3 days of cases last week. It's not like they had this under control. It's not growing exponentially, but there's a lot of places where that is happening, which I've said multiple times. It's not growing exponentially in this country at the rate it could, because a lot of people are doing a decent job of staying apart. Which is great. If you think this magically isn't going to spread more if people start interacting in public a lot, be my guest.
[Reply]
Marcellus 10:26 AM 04-21-2020
Originally Posted by BWillie:
We have 800,000 TOTAL cases. There are still 684,000 cases that haven't concluded yet resulting in EITHER a death or a recovery. There are 43,177 deaths. 72,561 recoveries. Deaths + Recoveries of cases with a result = 115,738. We know that the total cases reported are mostly the significant and more severe cases, so the CFR is much lower than this BUT of reported cases the death rate is 43,177 deaths / 115,738 total cases w/ a result = 37%. (The world rate is 21% of reported cases. Being that we are one of the obese nations of the world with many citizens with comorbidities this makes total sense. Being that we rarely test asymptomatic people & those who are younger experiencing mild symptoms, again this makes total sense)

Since we have 684,000 active cases, if we assume a constant death rate of those cases of 37% that is 255,171 That is probably high and worst case scenario. But even if we assume that at most HALF of the 684,000 active cases will recover (or have recovered and just aren't reported which is a HUUUGE stretch) then that gives us 342,000 active cases. Even if the death rate DECLINES to even 15% (which mind you is way below our current of 37% and 21% world death rate of REPORTED more significant cases) then that puts us at 51,300 more deaths.

This is the bare, bare minimum and best, best case scenario you could EVER hope for with these numbers and that is about 95k deaths. This doesn't take into account ANY new cases being reported. And the assumption that nobody ever gets Covid-19 ever again, and that nobody at home as Covid-19 currently. Which clearly will not be the case. We ALSO know that alot of deaths are slow to report so there are likely many deaths that have occurred that haven't even been reported yet.

With that data we can easily conclude we will eclipse 100k deaths very, very easily. And within the next 45 days even.
Your numbers are simply way off on the high end on every single speculation. You are using numbers we know right now aren't true like your ridiculous death rate. CFR in known cases is 3-8%. At the high end that predicts 64K deaths and we know its not going to be 8% when this is over.
[Reply]
tk13 10:28 AM 04-21-2020
Originally Posted by petegz28:
NY's initial report is at 481 for new deaths. They did do two reports yesterday that took them to 631 total. This is the I think the 3rd bit at least the 2nd day in a row where their initial report for new deaths was under 500.

You can spin this any way you wish but the bottom line is the numbers are significantly lower than they were last week and it appears to be continuing to go down.
I don't know who here is spinning anything. You're creating a problem that doesn't exist. Most people think the curve is being flattened and it has been going in the right direction. The only question I generally see people raising is whether it's a good idea to open things up, or wait a few weeks for things to go down at a more significant level before pulling the trigger.
[Reply]
FD 10:30 AM 04-21-2020
Originally Posted by dirk digler:
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.16.20065920v1


Outcomes of hydroxychloroquine usage in United States veterans hospitalized with Covid-19
Seems like every new study that comes out just makes hydroxychloroquine look worse and worse. Remdesivir on the other hand...
[Reply]
loochy 10:30 AM 04-21-2020
The reopening has begun here. I got this email from a local popcicle store:


Originally Posted by :
A Letter From our CEO:

Dear Valued Customers,
Your safety and well-being and that of our employees is our number one priority. In response to the latest developments surrounding the coronavirus (COVID-19), we have elected to re-open our stores effective Wednesday, April 22, 2020. Store hours for all our locations will be available on our website beginning tomorrow morning.
This has been a difficult decision for us to make as the safety of our communities and employees are the number one focus of all of us at Steel City Pops. But we believe it is the right thing to do for our community.
We will continue to work with our teams and public health officials in the states we have locations on the best way to continue to move through this uncertain period. As we promised a few weeks ago, we will continue to share information with you as we move forward together.
Steel City Pops is taking the following measures to ensure safety in our stores:
· Customers will be encouraged to maintain social distancing between each other within the store. Employees and signs will remind customers to follow this recommended practice.
· If you see employees wearing masks, it is because we have allowed them to do so at their request. Masks are used primarily to prevent employees from touching their noses/mouths with their hands, and not because they are sick.
· All employees are being asked to wash their hands every 15 minutes and will be wearing gloves their whole shift.
· Employees will be wiping down all surfaces with sanitizer and a clean rag every 15 minutes, including all pay devices, bathrooms and countertops.
We have also attempted to increase the ways that our customers can have their treats delivered to them so that they can remain at home. You can go to gotab.io and order your favorite flavors for curb-side pick-up or delivery.
Please know that we are committed to taking every measure possible to keep our customers and employees safe and healthy.
Thank you for being a loyal Steel City Pops customer,
Pete Srodoski, CEO Steel City Pops

[Reply]
DaFace 10:34 AM 04-21-2020
Originally Posted by FD:
Seems like every new study that comes out just makes hydroxychloroquine look worse and worse. Remdesivir on the other hand...
Yep. I don't think we've really seen anything at all showing that hydroxychloroquine is going to do much. Fingers crossed that the positive signs for remdesivir continue to come in.
[Reply]
petegz28 10:37 AM 04-21-2020
Originally Posted by tk13:
I don't know who here is spinning anything. You're creating a problem that doesn't exist. Most people think the curve is being flattened and it has been going in the right direction. The only question I generally see people raising is whether it's a good idea to open things up, or wait a few weeks for things to go down at a more significant level before pulling the trigger.
Right....
[Reply]
dirk digler 10:43 AM 04-21-2020
Originally Posted by FD:
Seems like every new study that comes out just makes hydroxychloroquine look worse and worse. Remdesivir on the other hand...

So far that sounds correct. From my understanding NY sent their data\testing results off to the government last week so we should know the results soon.
[Reply]
DaneMcCloud 10:49 AM 04-21-2020
Originally Posted by tk13:
Where do I say that? That's what people who are losing an argument do, they change the subject. I never, ever said any such thing. You just changed the focus of the argument.
That's his M.O. He spews a bunch of false horseshit then when confronted, will change the subject or parameters.

Don't waste your time addressing him.
[Reply]
FloridaMan88 10:51 AM 04-21-2020
Originally Posted by tk13:
Where do I say that? That's what people who are losing an argument do, they change the subject. I never, ever said any such thing. You just changed the focus of the argument.

You were praising Georgia as a state who basically wasn't having any issues even though they were late on a stay-at-home order. I corrected you and mentioned that there's a place in Georgia that's one of the biggest hotspots in America. And frankly for a large portion of this time the state has been at or near the top 10 in cases. Hardly an example of an area who is hitting it out of the park right now.

And even on top of that, in the very article you posted, they had 2 of their top 3 days of cases last week. It's not like they had this under control. It's not growing exponentially, but there's a lot of places where that is happening, which I've said multiple times. It's not growing exponentially in this country at the rate it could, because a lot of people are doing a decent job of staying apart. Which is great. If you think this magically isn't going to spread more if people start interacting in public a lot, be my guest.
The two main supposed justifications for social distancing are to stop the exponential growth in hospitalizations from COVID-19 and to preserve the capacity of hospitals.

Georgia has successfully achieved both of those objectives.

So has the state of Florida... another state that received criticism for the timing of its shelter in place order.
[Reply]
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