I get his numbers are good but I've got people on ESPN saying he'll be a top 3 QB by the end of next year...fansided saying he should be an MVP candidate right now when his team has 3 wins...
Originally Posted by SAGA45:
I saw all that...your evaluation and critique of his game. I just wanted to know exactly which 10 QB's you rank above him. That's all.
I'd take Watson over Matt Ryan (he's even more blah than Watson). I'd take Watson over Ryan Fitzpatrick.
But I'd move Wilson and Herbert into my top 10 before I would Watson. So that leaves him right about where he is:
11th
There's some guys way down the list too that I'd probably consider before Watson just because of potential, like Joe Burrow.
Interesting, when using that link and sorting the QB's via the primary stat categories for passing...Watson is top 10 in yards, touchdowns, completion percentage, passer rating, and times sacked. I get the reverence some have for QBR but, if anything, you made things more complicated.
A simple and definitive list of 10 QB's you rank higher than Watson would suffice. [Reply]
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
Sorry man, we've had this conversation so many times, I don't know where I posted it.
I'm just not a Watson fan. For me, there's more to a QB than a live arm and athletic ability.
I wanna see intangibles and I don't see it in Watson. He's the guy that hangs his head when things go bad. He's not an igniter, he doesn't play the position with a lot of positive passion.
He also lacks in ball placement and without a WR like Hopkins, he's always going to struggle with low percentage passes.
For better or worse, I tend to evaluate QB's on "championship" potential. The guy in the OP, Justin Herbert might have it. It's still too early to tell and hyping him now is an exercise in impatience.
I've seen enough of Watson though. He doesn't have "it" and it's unlikely he ever will. The BOB excuse is just that, an excuse.
Watson and Cam Newton share a Jekyll and Hyde characteristic. There's a huge difference between chest puff Watson and shoulder slump Watson.
I differ from htis in that I think that the 'championship level intangibles' are the most coachable aspects of QB performance. Not everyone can scramble, or heave it a country mile, or demonstrate pinpoint accuracy, but everyone has the capacity to get out of their own head.
It's like the yips in golf. I'll take a guy who can drive 350 and do the chipping and putting when the pressure's off and try to correct his mental mistakes over someone who has a can do mentality but lacks the physical skills. [Sorenson syndrome]
I judge QBs by what they can do when they're at their best and strive to get them to do that all the time, as opposed to thinking that their funks are unavoidable and unchangeable aspects of their talent.
That's what has me high on Herbert, he's on a shit/cursed team, and he makes mistakes, but his HIGHLIGHTS would find a spot somewhere even on a Mahomes highlight reel, not the top highlight, but in the mix of 'top 25 eye-popping plays'
OTOH, Stafford had that flash for eons and never got a team around him. Eventually time and age wore off his luster before they did anything consequential.
And the case against my premise and in favor of htis' would be Romo. He always had the right mentality and obviously developed the skills, and his broadcasting suggests he has the knowledge base, but he went his entire career with just enough brainfart in his game to fail him at the championship level. Not always his fault, but ultimately his legacy. Rivers fits in there as well. [Reply]
Originally Posted by -King-:
Can't believe you keep posting this QBR bullshit. How come you can't make your own top 10 list? Which 10 QBs would YOU take over watson?
Um, I said I already did. I've actually posted it multiple times, in multiple threads. I'm not going to do it again because it never results in anything but more bickering. I'm not wasting my time.
I posted the QBR list is because it happens to be very close to my own list. [Reply]
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
Um, I said I already did. I've actually posted it multiple times, in multiple threads. I'm not going to do it again because it never results in anything but more bickering. I'm not wasting my time.
I posted the QBR list is because it happens to be very close to my own list.
Is this the list you're talking about?
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
Well age is a factor of course. But if you're going strictly off of ability:
Aaron Rodgers
Patrick Mahomes
Drew Brees
Russell Wilson
Josh Allen
Dak Prescott
Kyler Murray
Ryan Tannehill
eddy Bridgewater
Justin Herbert
Lamar Jackson
Matthew Stafford
Joe Burrow
Jared Goff
You'd take Teddy Bridgewater, Lamar Jackson, Matt Stafford, Jared Goff, and Ryan Tannehill over Watson? :-) [Reply]
Originally Posted by DaFace:
He looks pretty good, but for a long time people would have called Rivers a top 5 QB who just never had the team around him. It takes a lot to rise above Chargers-level ineptitude.
What?
I recall at LEAST three seasons where the chargers were considered the most talented team in football.
Solid defense and playing with Tomlinson and prime Antonio gates? Those guys are all time great. Rivers took over a winning team.
I cant imagine anyone being goofy enough to say rivers hasnt been on talented teams. [Reply]
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins:
M. Night Harbaughlan can barely coach up a college QB to beat Rutgers when he has a massive talent advantage. He's done as a HC.
I agree that his results at Michigan haven’t been as impressive as with Stanford and the 49ers, but I think his personality better matches an NFL style of roster better. I think he will get another shot in the NFL as soon as next year and will provide better results. JMO. I may well be wrong.
I could see him coaching the Jets or SD.
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
Sorry man, we've had this conversation so many times, I don't know where I posted it.
I'm just not a Watson fan. For me, there's more to a QB than a live arm and athletic ability.
I wanna see intangibles and I don't see it in Watson. He's the guy that hangs his head when things go bad. He's not an igniter, he doesn't play the position with a lot of positive passion.
He also lacks in ball placement and without a WR like Hopkins, he's always going to struggle with low percentage passes.
For better or worse, I tend to evaluate QB's on "championship" potential. The guy in the OP, Justin Herbert might have it. It's still too early to tell and hyping him now is an exercise in impatience.
I've seen enough of Watson though. He doesn't have "it" and it's unlikely he ever will. The BOB excuse is just that, an excuse.
I disagree with almost every word of this post.
1) Watson doesn’t have a “live arm”. His arm is adequate but not a strength of his game by any stretch.
2) He’s also not extremely athletic. That’s not his game, either. I’m not saying he’s not athletic, he is, but that’s not what makes him good.
3) His intangibles and touch are his biggest strengths of his overall value. I’m not sure how that’s even something that can be debated. “Positive passion”? I’m not sure how you don’t see that from him.
4) his accuracy and ball placement are on par with almost any QB in the league.
I see Watson as a QB that’s very underrated due to situation. [Reply]
Lack of a solid fanbase will really hurt Herbert's potential. Sure he might put the stats and be consistent but he won't have that fire and drive playing in front of a half empty stadium. I live in SD and fans here became depressed when the Chargers left. Personal friends of mine refuse to follow the Chargers now. Media coverage isn't the same. When I went to a couple of Chiefs games at the Q a few years back, the stadium was always packed. Chargers simply don't have the pressure that teams like the Chiefs do in contending every season for the ultimate goal. This lack of expectation from fans, the media and the like will really affect the growth of Herbert. [Reply]
