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Saccopoo Memorial Draft Forum>The problem with Jalen Ramsey.
Direckshun 07:17 AM 09-18-2019
This is a player that is probably worth two first round picks, so you're mortgaging your future.

He is also going to cost a ton, which will likely cost you Chris Jones.

So here's your question....................

Who is your #2 corner in 2020?

Breeland, Fuller, and Claiborne are all walking. You only have Ward and Fenton under contract.

You've got no money, no first round pick, and now you've got no Chris Jones either. Which means more of what we're doing now: trying to make bargain bin CBs work along with some rookies we didn't take in the 1st round.

Meanwhile the Patriots, whether or not we topple them this year, will march into 2020 fully stocked.
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WhiteWhale 07:26 AM 09-18-2019
I'd be all for it if KC hadn't been trading away high draft picks every year for several years.

IF Frank Clark hasn't cost us so much draft capital, I'd probably be taking a different position on this.

Plus KC keeps flipping 1st round picks (Peters, Ford) for 2nd rounders. Not a sustainable model.
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Iczer 07:28 AM 09-18-2019
Who's to say Chris Jones doesn't get traded to recoup on what you traded to get Ramsey?

I have faith they can manipulate the cap and make things work. Front load, back load, etc.

Watkins will have to be a cap casualty to clear up room too.
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Iconic 09:54 AM 09-18-2019
Originally Posted by Iczer:
Who's to say Chris Jones doesn't get traded to recoup on what you traded to get Ramsey?

I have faith they can manipulate the cap and make things work. Front load, back load, etc.

Watkins will have to be a cap casualty to clear up room too.
This. You could trade Watkins and CJ and end up with MORE picks than you started with + a lock down corner.
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Direckshun 11:07 AM 09-18-2019
Originally Posted by Iczer:
Who's to say Chris Jones doesn't get traded to recoup on what you traded to get Ramsey?

I have faith they can manipulate the cap and make things work. Front load, back load, etc.

Watkins will have to be a cap casualty to clear up room too.
Originally Posted by Iconic:
This. You could trade Watkins and CJ and end up with MORE picks than you started with + a lock down corner.
So I've actually suggested this exact thing in at least two of my most recent mocks. (By the way, Watkins does save you $14m but is $7m in dead money.)

You can probably get at least a Frank Clark deal for Jones. Hell you can probably get two 1sts. And if Sammy keeps playing as he is now, you can probably net a 2nd for him.

But then you have to ask yourself if that's what you actually want to do. (I.e. how much do you trust Hardman to ascend into a #2 WR, and how much do you trust Veach to draft DT and CB well.)

It will send in you into the 2020 draft with a need for a premier DT and you'll still need multiple CBs.
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Pasta Giant Meatball 11:47 AM 09-18-2019
What a loon
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Chargem 12:16 PM 09-21-2019
You mention having no first round pick and no money, so I assume you get Ramsey in this scenario? If so, do you need multiple CBs or just one?
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RealSNR 12:43 PM 09-21-2019
Originally Posted by Chargem:
You mention having no first round pick and no money, so I assume you get Ramsey in this scenario? If so, do you need multiple CBs or just one?
Unless Charvarious Ward turns into something more than jack shit, you need multiples.

Marcus Peters was amazing in 2015 and 2016, but he was especially good in 2015. That's because he had a very good Sean Smith on the opposite side. He left after that year, and we consistently got burned deep on Philip Gaines fuck ups. Remember when we convinced ourselves we could be kinda sorta alright with Terrance Mitchell towards the end of 2016? And how well that worked out for us? Yeah... no.

Sure, even the best Marcus Peters had to offer isn't Jalen Ramsey, but does that matter? Did it matter how much Peters had his guy locked up when QBs kept hitting their guys over the top of Steven Nelson at nickel or Gaines/Mitchell?

That's why going into next year, if we managed to re-sign Breeland or Fuller, drafted somebody in the 1st/2nd round, and added more CB depth later in the draft or through the bargain bin of free agency, I'd prefer that to blowing the wad on Ramsey, giving him his big money, and not having a 1st round pick this year or the next year.

And if we went that route, it'd be tough, but we could also potentially keep somebody like Darron Lee instead of having to start all over at LB, too.
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kccrow 03:18 PM 09-21-2019
Multiple firsts are not something I'd even remotely consider trading for Ramsey. One first and maybe a mid-round pick. A third is really pushing it but that'd be the absolute maximum. Otherwise, I think you trust your drafts going forward.
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Chargem 02:31 AM 09-22-2019
Originally Posted by RealSNR:
Unless Charvarious Ward turns into something more than jack shit, you need multiples.

Marcus Peters was amazing in 2015 and 2016, but he was especially good in 2015. That's because he had a very good Sean Smith on the opposite side. He left after that year, and we consistently got burned deep on Philip Gaines fuck ups. Remember when we convinced ourselves we could be kinda sorta alright with Terrance Mitchell towards the end of 2016? And how well that worked out for us? Yeah... no.

Sure, even the best Marcus Peters had to offer isn't Jalen Ramsey, but does that matter? Did it matter how much Peters had his guy locked up when QBs kept hitting their guys over the top of Steven Nelson at nickel or Gaines/Mitchell?

That's why going into next year, if we managed to re-sign Breeland or Fuller, drafted somebody in the 1st/2nd round, and added more CB depth later in the draft or through the bargain bin of free agency, I'd prefer that to blowing the wad on Ramsey, giving him his big money, and not having a 1st round pick this year or the next year.

And if we went that route, it'd be tough, but we could also potentially keep somebody like Darron Lee instead of having to start all over at LB, too.
I guess I agree, but we are just projecting pretty far out - needing multiple corners assumes that Ward doesn't progress any this season, Fenton doesn't develop any and Reaser doesn't show anything when back from IR, which is literally the worst possible outcome.

I think the Chiefs were so exploitable with Peters because of Buttons and that he only played one side, so any team could just run rampant on the other side of the field. The Patriots on the other hand do a pretty good job with one shut down corner, just asking him to follow the number 2 receiver and double teaming the number 1 with safety help in most scenarios.

I do agree with you though, I would rather have two "number 2's" than a shutdown guy and some hot garbage on the other side.

The ideal scenario is probably giving a contract to one of Breeland and Fuller, trying to bring in another vet in the off season on a short ish term deal and then drafting a guy high ish and not putting too much pressure on him to start his first year.
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rabblerouser 06:00 AM 09-22-2019
Originally Posted by Iconic:
This. You could trade Watkins and CJ and end up with MORE picks than you started with + a lock down corner.
they resigned CJ Spiller?
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