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Media Center>The Greatest Live Albums ever recorded. Who ya got?
scho63 05:09 AM 04-23-2020
I realize that bands like the Beatles had no real "live" albums and it started around the late 70's - early 80's.

So who has the greatest LIVE albums?

I'll start with the (3) that made the most impact on me:

1. Kiss ALIVE!
2. Frampton Comes Alive!
3. Ted Nugent Double Live Gonzo!

Maybe it was the "exclamation points" that did it for me! :-)

What live stuff rocked your world? :-)

EDIT: Bootlegs prior to real LIVE albums don't count. Having someone steal Hendrix before he ever made his own live album doesn't count.
[Reply]
Randallflagg 08:01 PM 05-03-2020
Originally Posted by DeepPurple:
Back in the 80's I belonged to FOPG (Friends of Peter Gabriel) and I use to get a newsletter mailed from the UK. I remember when he was making the 1986 album "So", he recorded it in both digital and analog. Afterwards he did a blindfold test and he liked the analog recording best. He said it gave the music more warmth and the notes more fullness.

Yep...never ceases to amaze me....in my youth I must have had 300-400 albums. Pretty much anything out there. Wasn't big on 45s though. A friend of mine turned me on to c cassettes - Okay.

Then one day this same friend asked me to stop by. By this tine, it must have been 75? 77? and I was home on leave. He had a spanking brand new CD player....I believe it cost $700 back then.
:-)

So, I gave every album I owned away. Every. Single. One. Of them. Most of which I paid somewhere in the vicinity of $3-4 at the time. I sold my Stereo - damned fine one, Pioneer turntable, Marantz receiver and amp, Klipsch speakers; the whole nine yards.

Now? Your average vinyl album cost what? $30-40 bucks? Holy cow.....
[Reply]
FAX 09:02 PM 05-03-2020
Originally Posted by scho63:
Just went and listened to Cheap Trick Live at Buddakan last night after work.

Not bad at all!

I'm going to try and rotate one or two a week in my listening lineup.

I've done Skynrd several times in the past but there are a couple of neat ones in this thread I gotta try. None of the headbangers though.
This recording would be in my top 10.

FAX
[Reply]
Jamie 10:36 PM 05-03-2020
Originally Posted by Deberg_1990:
Nirvana. MTV unplugged. Amazing
Agreed, but Live at Reading deserves to be mentioned too. It's universally considered one of the two or three best shows Nirvana ever played, if not the best. Plus it's more what I'd consider a true live album (as in, a document of what it was like to see the band in concert).
[Reply]
alpha_omega 12:58 PM 05-04-2020
Originally Posted by Randallflagg:
The "best" live recording ever....is sort of a little misleading. What I mean is recordings from the 60s 70s and early 80s can't be judged with the 90s-2000s fairly. It's a helluva lot different on a 16 track tape (or even 8 track 3/4 inch tape) than it is digitally recorded. Microphones are a thousand times better - recording equipment the same.

I don't know....just a thought.
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud:
This is true. Some "Live" albums weren't actually live, at all. In many cases, they kept the kick drum, then went into a studio and re-recorded every other instrument.

Others, like my favorite live album of all time, Frampton Comes Alive, wasn't live at all and in fact, recorded at A&M Studios on La Brea. Sometimes, bands will overdub any mistakes and in others, the vocals are either overdubbed, tuned (it was time consuming to pitch correct vocals with an Eventide H910 but it was done) or re-recorded altogther.

But the bottom line is that the performances connect with an audience.




Up until the past four or five years, when analog to digital converters made a huge leap, most people prefer the sound of analog tape versus digital, especially the Sony PCM 3348, which was a mainstay of the 80's. The Sony Machine coupled with an SSL console is basically "The Sound of the 80's". Very, very clean, very little bass (bottom end) and a high end sheen that didn't exist before that era due to the limitations of analog tape, "hiss" being the main factor.

Most artists prefer 2" 16 track or 2" 32 track (Michael Beinhorn created a 2" 8 track machine that he used for tracking drums - Ozzy's Ozzmosis album was the first album he used it on - Superunknown is probably the most famous example) but it's just too difficult and too time consuming to use these days when compared to the ease of digital. Plus, as mentioned earlier, high end converters sound absolutely amazing, as do even low end converters.



I'm not sure if you're stating that microphones from the 50's through 70's are better or if the microphones today are better. But the general consensus is that the German mics from the 50's, 60's and 70's were light years better than any of the mics developed and manufactured from the 80's until about 2010ish.

There isn't a person with "ears" on the planet that wouldn't take a Neumann U67, U87, U47 (my personal fav) or even a 47 FET over the microphones made from the 80's to around 2010. Throw in Gefell, AKG, RCA, Beyer and even Shure SM57's - before they were made in Mexico - or even a good ol' EV RE20 into that pile. Those mics are still in demand and highly sought after, which will bring back a bounty to the owner if he decides to part with it.

While there are a few companies that get close to the original AKG C12 and Neumann U47, they're still around $6K and $12k respectively. For that price, you'd probably be better off purchasing a vintage mic and having someone like Dave Royer, Dave Pearlman or JJ Blair restore it.

About the only new mic that gained any prestige during the 80's was the Sony C800-G, which Mick Guzauski chose for Mariah Carey's voice because she had such a beautiful yet warm top end to her voice. Other producers began using it on other R&B and Pop vocalists but no one made it sound like Mariah. Ribbon mics, especially the Royer R121 (coupled with an SM57), became all the rage for heavy guitar tones in the early 2000's but they still don't have the same mojo as an RCA 77 and the best clones (made by AEA) top $6K today.

The bottom line is that if it was cost and time effective, most (not all, as digital is unbeatable for classical and jazz) would choose analog tape over digital and the mic locker at Blackbird or Abbey Road over Chinese knockoffs. And while some of the knockoffs are very, very good most certainly usable, they just aren't the same as their vintage counterparts.
Originally Posted by Randallflagg:
I agree. I understand that analog has become more "en vogue" than in the past (Hell, I started out with a few friends in the 80s with a TEAC 4 track cassette machine. Very rudimentary back in the day, but it actually did a fair job. Made us feel like big time guys! :-)

The few times I have played out live - not since the early 90s - I used to lug my Ampeg SVT with an 8X10 cab (or occasionally a 6X10) and nearly always the sound tech would hook up a EV RE20 or even a Shure 57 and stick it in from of my cab. Later, I bought a SVT4Pro - simply for the quality of the Line Out. I still have a Mic case full of 58s...ran across them the other day and they brought a smile to the old face....Those were the days. :-)
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud:
The advances in computer chips have basically eliminated the need for analog use on a daily basis.

From 2007-2014, I had a Neve 8816 mixer and a Vintech 609CA on the 2 buss, which all sounded great but I had to render every track in Real Time, which is a major pain in the ass when you're providing as many as 20 Stems on 3 minute cues. And if you make a mistake and unmute the wrong the group, you have to do the render over again. I also had to check each Stem, which took another full hour or more.

These days, everything's done in the "box". I still use Vintech x73's and other high end outboard gear but mixing in the box generally takes less than 1 minute per track and it's impossible to tell the difference between the render and the playback because it's all numbers.

Oddly enough, I've had a dozen albums mastered over at Capitol due to the policies of certain Production Music Libraries and in each case, preferred my Masters over theirs every time.

And yeah, the SVT4 Pro is a cool head. I used to have an Ampeg SVTII Pro tube bass preamp, which I should have never, ever sold, because it was a beautiful piece of gear. I've been using the Sansamp Geddy Lee bass Preamp into a an 1176 revision D since 2017 and I'm getting the best bass tones I've ever recorded, even better than my Ampeg V4BH head and Ampeg cab, although that setup sounded freaking awesome (the V4BH is a 100 watt version of a vintage SVT, so it's perfect for recording).

I used to miss analog but now, I don't. And I certainly don't miss constantly cleaning the heads, biasing and demagnetizing. Even thinking about it makes me say "Ugh".

:-)
Holy cow. You guys turned this thread up a notch. Good info (even though i'm not sure what it all means).
[Reply]
DaneMcCloud 02:11 PM 05-04-2020
Originally Posted by DeepPurple:
Back in the 80's I belonged to FOPG (Friends of Peter Gabriel) and I use to get a newsletter mailed from the UK. I remember when he was making the 1986 album "So", he recorded it in both digital and analog. Afterwards he did a blindfold test and he liked the analog recording best. He said it gave the music more warmth and the notes more fullness.
That was certainly true back in the 80's but not so today.

FWIW, Peter Gabriel purchased SSL in 2005 and sold it in 2017. SSL consoles used to cost $1 million or more and now, you can buy those same consoles for $10k or less.
[Reply]
ModSocks 02:53 PM 05-04-2020
The AC/DC Live album from '91.

I don't know how "live" it was considering it sounded better than any studio album they produced imo.

Any time i hear the studio version of Thunderstruck or Highway to Hell etc it just doesn't compare to the live album.

Usually i prefer the studio version to most live albums, but that one is certainly the exception imo.

The worst "live" album i ever heard was Nirvana Live From the Muddy Banks of Wishkah. Holy fuck that sucked.

You know who else really sucks live? Marilyn Manson. Gah. Give me the studio version pls.
[Reply]
GayFrogs 03:57 PM 05-04-2020
Originally Posted by Detoxing:
The worst "live" album i ever heard was Nirvana Live From the Muddy Banks of Wishkah. Holy fuck that sucked.


I like how they slow down by 30 bpm when the chorus comes in :-)
[Reply]
Randallflagg 08:52 PM 05-12-2020
Originally Posted by alpha_omega:
Holy cow. You guys turned this thread up a notch. Good info (even though i'm not sure what it all means).

:-)


Thanks a lot! Sorry to get carried away, but I love talking to other musicians (always have). Basses are something like a "religion" to bass players. Brands like Fender, Warwick, Zon, Warrior, Alembic etc are like a bit of lifeblood to us.

Sorry about hijacking the thread. I would like you to enjoy this young lady....she has been something of a phenom for several years now....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25q8nWZQGaQ

Sorry, can't get the damned thing to embed........ :-)
[Reply]
rabblerouser 01:37 PM 05-13-2020
Originally Posted by Randallflagg:
:-)


Thanks a lot! Sorry to get carried away, but I love talking to other musicians (always have). Basses are something like a "religion" to bass players. Brands like Fender, Warwick, Zon, Warrior, Alembic etc are like a bit of lifeblood to us.

Sorry about hijacking the thread. I would like you to enjoy this young lady....she has been something of a phenom for several years now....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25q8nWZQGaQ

Sorry, can't get the damned thing to embed........ :-)
I have the 1962 Fender AVRI P-bass, 2012 reissue, a Squier 50's CV P-bass with a Lollar pickup and Gotoh tuners, and 2 Bass VIs. I also have a Squier TB P-bass with Gotoh Vintage reverse tuners that I'm in the process of splitting the coils on the 'mudbucker' pickup it came with. Oh, and I have a 70's Kay copy of a Gibson EB-0 that i upgraded the tuners on...

My amps are the real deal - SVT-VR, Mid 70s V4-B (Magnovox era with white rocker switches), and a 50w '68 Bassman with the blackface mod.

Cabs: mid 90s Ampeg 810e, mid 70s V4 412 (upgraded with Eminence Deltalite IIs), and a late 60s Showman 212.

I also have a 50w Bassman 10 from the mid 70s that I need to put new speakers in.

Need to retube and bias the 68 Bassman, too.

Been busy restringing and getting stuff ready to (hopefully) play shows soon. Flatwound bass strings have gotten EXPENSIVE over the past 2 years. Last time I bought strings before the quarantine, D'Addario Chrome Flats were like $25. They're $40 now, so I switched to Fenders.

Been restringing my guitars with the new "Burley Slinkys" by Ernie Ball.
[Reply]
DaneMcCloud 02:05 PM 05-13-2020
Originally Posted by rabblerouser:
Been busy restringing and getting stuff ready to (hopefully) play shows soon. Flatwound bass strings have gotten EXPENSIVE over the past 2 years. Last time I bought strings before the quarantine, D'Addario Chrome Flats were like $25. They're $40 now, so I switched to Fenders.

Been restringing my guitars with the new "Burley Slinkys" by Ernie Ball.
Have you been able to find Fender Nickel Flats? All I've been able to find these days are either the stainless steel or Cobalts.

I didn't care for the stainless strings at all and I don't care for stainless steel frets, either.

The Cobalts are usable but I need to roll off the tone knob quite a bit because they're still brighter than nickel but definitely more pleasant than stainless.
[Reply]
rabblerouser 05-13-2020, 04:09 PM
This message has been deleted by rabblerouser.
rabblerouser 04:15 PM 05-13-2020
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud:
Have you been able to find Fender Nickel Flats? All I've been able to find these days are either the stainless steel or Cobalts.

I didn't care for the stainless strings at all and I don't care for stainless steel frets, either.

The Cobalts are usable but I need to roll off the tone knob quite a bit because they're still brighter than nickel but definitely more pleasant than stainless.
The Thomastik-Infield Flats are like $70 a set, those are the only nickel wound bass flats I know of these days, and I never warmed to them - we tune a half-step down, and the slack in those TI flats is extremely noticeable at A=432hz.
[Reply]
rabblerouser 04:21 PM 05-13-2020
Originally Posted by Jamie:
Agreed, but Live at Reading deserves to be mentioned too. It's universally considered one of the two or three best shows Nirvana ever played, if not the best. Plus it's more what I'd consider a true live album (as in, a document of what it was like to see the band in concert).
I have Live At Reading, but I think I prefer the Live & Loud show from 1993 that just came out.
[Reply]
rabblerouser 04:26 PM 05-13-2020
Originally Posted by Detoxing:
The AC/DC Live album from '91.

I don't know how "live" it was considering it sounded better than any studio album they produced imo.

Any time i hear the studio version of Thunderstruck or Highway to Hell etc it just doesn't compare to the live album.
Great album, but I'm pretty sure the only overdubs on it are some of Angus's solos and the backing vocals.

Originally Posted by Detoxing:
The worst "live" album i ever heard was Nirvana Live From the Muddy Banks of Wishkah. Holy **** that sucked.
Special place in my heart for that one, it came out my senior year, and it's actually pretty slamming. Great version of "Teen Spirit", and the best version of "Spank Thru."

I have the original pressing on vinyl.

Originally Posted by Detoxing:
You know who else really sucks live? Marilyn Manson. Gah. Give me the studio version pls.
They were great when the band was :

MM
Zim Zum/John 5
Ginger Fish
Madonna Wayne Gacy
Twiggy Ramirez

The rhythm section of Twiggy and Ginger would crush your head in.

I don't even know who is in the band anymore. I did pick up their 2017 release, but it was so badly dished I had to put it in the vinyl flat, so i haven't played it yet.
[Reply]
rabblerouser 04:33 PM 05-13-2020
Originally Posted by Randallflagg:
Yep...never ceases to amaze me....in my youth I must have had 300-400 albums. Pretty much anything out there. Wasn't big on 45s though. A friend of mine turned me on to c cassettes - Okay.
I have over 6000 records...

I'd have a hard time picking 1000 to keep, much less 300-400.

Originally Posted by Randallflagg:
Then one day this same friend asked me to stop by. By this tine, it must have been 75? 77? and I was home on leave. He had a spanking brand new CD player....I believe it cost $700 back then. :-)
Not in the 70s; consumer CD players hit the market in 1982, and it was Japan first.
Originally Posted by Randallflagg:
So, I gave every album I owned away. Every. Single. One. Of them. Most of which I paid somewhere in the vicinity of $3-4 at the time. I sold my Stereo - damned fine one, Pioneer turntable, Marantz receiver and amp, Klipsch speakers; the whole nine yards.
Wish I had known you.
Originally Posted by Randallflagg:
Now? Your average vinyl album cost what? $30-40 bucks? Holy cow.....
Average is closer to $20. Special "audiophile" pressings by MFSL, Analogue Productions, Speaker's Corner, etc are in the $30-40 range.

The new Dire Straits MFSL reissues are $50/each, 2 44rpm LPs per album.
[Reply]
DaneMcCloud 04:42 PM 05-13-2020
Originally Posted by rabblerouser:
The Thomastik-Infield Flats are like $70 a set, those are the only nickel wound bass flats I know of these days, and I never warmed to them - we tune a half-step down, and the slack in those TI flats is extremely noticeable at A=432hz.
Ha! You've had the same exact experience as me! I tune down 1/2 a step as well.

The Ernie Ball Cobalt Flats are the closest I've found to the Fender Nickel Flatwounds, so I guess I'll just stick with them.

Thanks!
[Reply]
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