Originally Posted by Mecca:
So this game looks great and is very high end......so why is everyone losing their mind about it being awful?
People read spoilers and so they cherry pick two or three things to complain about for views and attention but they never actually play the game. Their critiques are as useful as metacritic user reviews. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Beef Supreme:
From what I understand, there are a few reasons.
Some people are pissed about Joel. A lot of people were pissed about the red wedding in GoT, too. It doesn't make it a bad story, but you can understand why it might make some people angry.
Some people are unsatisfied with the ending. They didn't get the vengeance they wanted for the anger they felt about point 1.
Some people thought the story in general was ham-fisted and disjointed. I dunno, I haven't played it.
Some people think that the first game was great because in this brutal world, the story was somewhat hopeful. And this game is relentless in its depression.
Some people were pissed because Sony and Naughty Dog went apeshit with false copyright strikes on youtube, twitter, etc. Getting people banned and their content taken down who did nothing more than report that the leaks existed. A corporation with a buttload of money and lawyers on retainer filed false claims against independent creators, and basically had the attitude of "There's nothing you can do about it."
Some people are skeptical that this game is really deserving of the boatload of 10/10 reviews from access media. It might be a good game, but is it really one of the best games of all time?
Some people are just butthurt about everything in life.
I'm looking at this from an outside perspective because it is kinda interesting. I doubt it deserves the review bomb from users, but I can understand that people were pissed about a lot of things, particularly the false copyright strikes. I also doubt it's one of the best games of all time. That's why I'm interested in hearing what people here have to say, after they have finished the game.
The Joel thing would be like if the Red Wedding was written in Season 8 of Game of Thrones. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Beef Supreme:
From what I understand, there are a few reasons.
Some people are pissed about Joel. A lot of people were pissed about the red wedding in GoT, too. It doesn't make it a bad story, but you can understand why it might make some people angry.
Some people are unsatisfied with the ending. They didn't get the vengeance they wanted for the anger they felt about point 1.
Some people thought the story in general was ham-fisted and disjointed. I dunno, I haven't played it.
Some people think that the first game was great because in this brutal world, the story was somewhat hopeful. And this game is relentless in its depression.
Some people were pissed because Sony and Naughty Dog went apeshit with false copyright strikes on youtube, twitter, etc. Getting people banned and their content taken down who did nothing more than report that the leaks existed. A corporation with a buttload of money and lawyers on retainer filed false claims against independent creators, and basically had the attitude of "There's nothing you can do about it."
Some people are skeptical that this game is really deserving of the boatload of 10/10 reviews from access media. It might be a good game, but is it really one of the best games of all time?
Some people are just butthurt about everything in life.
I'm looking at this from an outside perspective because it is kinda interesting. I doubt it deserves the review bomb from users, but I can understand that people were pissed about a lot of things, particularly the false copyright strikes. I also doubt it's one of the best games of all time. That's why I'm interested in hearing what people here have to say, after they have finished the game.
Game is probably about a 7 with a questionable story and great graphics. Some love it and some hate it. Then some like me don't play console games to begin with and don't really care. :-)
The youtube copyright strikes like all other major corporations bullshit are what piss me off the most. They aren't the only big company doing that crap either, it's rampant. [Reply]
Lots of people seem to be upset that the game is depressing and never lets up in a time in the real world where "people don't want that right now". [Reply]
This game is the equivalent of sitting through John Wick for almost two hours watching him brutalize and kill people only for him to spare the guy who kills his dog at the end, because "RiVuNgE iZ bAd!!;:!"
Hopefully Druckmann never touches the story of any future Naughty Dog game, because he's just a lazy uninspired hack. [Reply]
I'm not quite done with it yet. Just finished Seattle Day 2 as Abby so i'm getting there. I read the leaks when they came out though so i'm aware of where the story ends up going.
I've gotta say that I think the hate for this game is nowhere near justified. I think the first one was definitely better narratively, but I completely reject the notion that this one isn't a masterpiece as well.
It's honestly puzzling to me that people are so up in arms about Joel getting killed in this game. It's like people completely missed the point of the first game. Joel is likable to us because we went on that journey with him, and played the game from his perspective. But he isn't a good dude. He sentenced the human race to a death sentence with his actions at the end of the first one and murdered countless innocent people in the process.
This isn't a happy go lucky, black and white series where the good guys get a happy ending like Uncharted was. This is bleak, depressing and shows the reality of life in a world where humanity barely exists and consequences exist for every choice people make.
To be frank, Joel deserved what he got, and I think it's been really interesting to experience this world from a perspective other than Joel and Ellie. The hate for Abby makes no sense to me. She's a well written and well acted character.
To me this game is a masterpiece and one of the best games i've played this generation. [Reply]
But he isn't a good dude. He sentenced the human race to a death sentence with his actions at the end of the first one and murdered countless innocent people in the process.
To be frank, Joel deserved what he got, and I think it's been really interesting to experience this world from a perspective other than Joel and Ellie. The hate for Abby makes no sense to me. She's a well written and well acted character.
I've seen this sentiment expressed a lot and I don't entirely agree with it. The Fireflies weren't exactly good people. When you finally find them in the first game they debate killing Joel on the spot. During the second half of the museum flashback you see the graffiti from a Firefly talking about murdering and torturing people for them. Abby's father decides he has the right to take Ellie's life without consulting her about it or giving Joel any time with her. If I'm remembering correctly there was a chance it wouldn't even work. I think Joel's actions were pretty understandable and even justified given the circumstances. I wouldn't call it a good thing but I'm not sure it was evil, either.
The shittiest thing from a in-universe perspective is that Ellie probably would have agreed to the procedure and talked Joel into it, too, but Jerry had to be an unethical asshole. I do agree that the game is great, though. I beat it a few days ago and loved it. Not as much as the first but it is great. [Reply]
Originally Posted by ShiftyEyedWaterboy:
I've seen this sentiment expressed a lot and I don't entirely agree with it. The Fireflies weren't exactly good people. When you finally find them in the first game they debate killing Joel on the spot. During the second half of the museum flashback you see the graffiti from a Firefly talking about murdering and torturing people for them. Abby's father decides he has the right to take Ellie's life without consulting her about it or giving Joel any time with her. If I'm remembering correctly there was a chance it wouldn't even work. I think Joel's actions were pretty understandable and even justified given the circumstances. I wouldn't call it a good thing but I'm not sure it was evil, either.
The shittiest thing from a in-universe perspective is that Ellie probably would have agreed to the procedure and talked Joel into it, too, but Jerry had to be an unethical asshole. I do agree that the game is great, though. I beat it a few days ago and loved it. Not as much as the first but it is great.
Your opinion honestly isn't wrong and I think that's the nuance and genius of what Druckmann did with this game.
Morality in the world of The Last of Us is so subjective. You could argue that Joel did the right thing by saving Ellie because of the unethical actions of the Fireflies. But you could also argue that the Fireflies were justified in attempting to act in the best interests of the greater good, even if it meant taking someone's life.
There isn't a clear cut right answer, and it makes the situation much more complex. Abby is completely justified in hunting down and killing Joel. From her perspective, he is a monster that murdered her father, disbanded the Fireflies (which were her family) and ended any chance of humanity being able to manufacture a cure. From that point of view, he's a horrible person who deserved a brutal death.
But he also saved Ellie, gave her a new chance at life and a family as well. From her point of view he is a loving father figure who died wrongfully, even though she wishes he had given her a choice in the matter, she understands why he did what he did and still loves him.
This story is multilayered, complex and requires critical thinking. I think anybody who expected a light, fun buddy adventure with Joel and Ellie completely missed the point of the first game. This was always a series that was about sobering reality and the consequences of a cruel world.
Even if you don't like the direction that they took the narrative, you at least have to respect the story that Druckmann is trying to tell. Unlike other recently criticized stories The Last Jedi and Game of Thrones, this one is different because the character's motivations all make sense and their actions are justified and rational in the scope of the world they live in. People just don't like it because it's not the direction they wanted the series to go. It's a bold story that takes risks that I wish more games would have the balls to do.
I think it's a masterpiece and I suspect that as the years go by, the widespread reception to this game will do a 180. [Reply]
Originally Posted by ShiftyEyedWaterboy:
Anyone met The Rat King yet? Holy shit...
That fuckin' fight was INTENSE. It took me about three tries to learn the loops in the map to create separation. I'm pretty sure I used every pipebomb and every craft material for that one. Thank goodness I picked up crafting for incendiary ammo. [Reply]
