More trade news: The #Chiefs are deep in talks with the #49ers on a trade for star pass-rusher Dee Ford, sources say. Things have escalated and this could get done by the end of the night. Ford needs to work out a new contract with SF, which is a big piece of this.
Originally Posted by O.city:
The issue with nabbing one of those pass rushers, is that you could have kept Ford on the tag and done that. You don't have to do one or the other.
Now you're in a position where you're right in the middle of a rookie qb contract of a guy that's going to absolutely break you off on his contract and to get a pass rush, it's gonna have to come from....who exactly?
If you keep Ford on the tag, you have to spend the draft capital on secondary help first and foremost. If Spagnuolo thought his defense would be better with Dee Ford and Speaks as the bookends, and a secondary that included Mathieu, Fuller, Ward, *Berry and rookies/cheap vets, they would have done that.
Clearly, they don’t value Ford + picks as much as they value Ford’s cap room + picks.
Having four top 100 picks in back-to-back years seems like a good strategy for prepping to have a very expensive QB, too.
As for the “now...”
Spagnuolo will scheme some of his pressure. He’ll be more creative. It’s not just going to be front 4 vs the OL.
The key here to me is all about getting better against the run. The #1 way to attack the Chiefs’ O is to ball control it on your own offense with the running game. That’s tough to do with Ford, and I’m willing to sacrifice some pass rush success to accomplish it.
Now... if they don’t do anything with the cap room or spend it on offense or something like that, I’ll critique the move of Ford.
But I’m confident these are initial moves, with follow-ups to come. [Reply]
I do think it’s ironic that the same people who bitched and bitched about the lack of defensive talent over the last few years want to crown Dorsey as the greatest GM alive.
A defense that was largely built by him. We can’t even name 3 above average defenders that he drafted here. [Reply]
Originally Posted by duncan_idaho:
If you keep Ford on the tag, you have to spend the draft capital on secondary help first and foremost. If Spagnuolo thought his defense would be better with Dee Ford and Speaks as the bookends, and a secondary that included Mathieu, Fuller, Ward, *Berry and rookies/cheap vets, they would have done that.
Clearly, they don’t value Ford + picks as much as they value Ford’s cap room + picks.
Having four top 100 picks in back-to-back years seems like a good strategy for prepping to have a very expensive QB, too.
As for the “now...”
Spagnuolo will scheme some of his pressure. He’ll be more creative. It’s not just going to be front 4 vs the OL.
The key here to me is all about getting better against the run. The #1 way to attack the Chiefs’ O is to ball control it on your own offense with the running game. That’s tough to do with Ford, and I’m willing to sacrifice some pass rush success to accomplish it.
Now... if they don’t do anything with the cap room or spend it on offense or something like that, I’ll critique the move of Ford.
But I’m confident these are initial moves, with follow-ups to come.
In a league built on throwing the ball around, we want to build a defense based on stopping the run?
I mean sure, get better vs the run. But you're telling me Dee Ford is the sole reason the Chiefs get gashed vs the run and you can't make improvements tot he 10 other guys out there so you can keep some pass rush?
The Chiefs have a high powered offense that's going to get them a lot of leads. It would be nice to be able to rush the passer. [Reply]
Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19:
I do think it’s ironic that the same people who bitched and bitched about the lack of defensive talent over the last few years want to crown Dorsey as the greatest GM alive.
A defense that was largely built by him. We can’t even name 3 above average defenders that he drafted here.
Dorsey doesn’t know defense per se. He’s okay (Chris Jones, Peters). But he has the best eye for offensive talent in the NFL. No one I’d rather have to build an offense for me than him.
But so far Veach hasn’t proven he doesn’t either.
I like the low end signings by Veach (Damien Williams, Jordan Lucas, Charvarious Ward) but he hasn’t shown he can provide big time defensive talent. He’ll get his chance his offseason [Reply]
Originally Posted by O.city:
In a league built on throwing the ball around, we want to build a defense based on stopping the run?
I mean sure, get better vs the run. But you're telling me Dee Ford is the sole reason the Chiefs get gashed vs the run and you can't make improvements tot he 10 other guys out there so you can keep some pass rush?
The Chiefs have a high powered offense that's going to get them a lot of leads. It would be nice to be able to rush the passer.
Two sided coin.
If the Chiefs are legitimately stout against the run, teams can’t play keep away from the offense nearly as efficiently. They’ll find themselves in a lot more 3rd and 7+ situations probably. And that’s when Spags and co. time up their disguised looks and blitzes... [Reply]
Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19:
Two sided coin.
If the Chiefs are legitimately stout against the run, teams can’t play keep away from the offense nearly as efficiently. They’ll find themselves in a lot more 3rd and 7+ situations probably. And that’s when Spags and co. time up their disguised looks and blitzes...
DJ - I just disagree on how much value his backside run defense adds when he’s moving to DE. He’s just way too easy to neutralize and exploit in the run game.
They have a lot of options to improve the pass rush/front four.
They can use the draft capital gained to move up and grab one of Ferrell or Sweat or Gary if he slips a bit, and pair that with a cheap, short-term deal for a situational pass-rusher who can rotate in one passing downs (Shane Ray template). Then still grab secondary help in one of the next few picks.
They can use the combo of draft capital and freed up salary to go trade for a big upgrade at CB, then still add the cheap situational pass rusher and draft a DE at one of their existing picks. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Mecca:
It's really unfortunate he went to Cleveland and basically gave them a top 5 WR duo with a franchise QB without giving up to much to do it...man how shitty.
You guys that crap on Dorsey realize how many GM's have shit themselves in jobs like that? It works because he knows what he's doing for the most part. The Chiefs drafted more pro bowl players than any other team while he was here, yet lets bitch that he sucks alright.
It all looks good when you have more money and draft picks than everybody else, but like here, it will catch up to him.
Dorsey already got his Dee Ford in Denzel Ward. I can’t for the life of me see why anyone would draft a 183 lb frail corner over Bradley Chubb. Just watch. That dude already had 2 concussions in his first year. He’s already looking like a 1 contract player in Cleveland for the same exact reasons as Ford.
You know our new RB Carlos Hyde? Guess what? Dorsey is paying that guy $2.3 million this year :-)
He signed that guy for a nice contract and then set it on fire. But no man. He doesn’t have financial flaws.
Dorsey isn’t a bad GM, but FFS he isn’t the ****ing God you guys make him out to be. [Reply]
Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19:
I do think it’s ironic that the same people who bitched and bitched about the lack of defensive talent over the last few years want to crown Dorsey as the greatest GM alive.
A defense that was largely built by him. We can’t even name 3 above average defenders that he drafted here.
It goes both ways. It cracks me up when guys like you bash Dorsey for not drafting a lot of D talent but last season you claimed Sutton was the worst DC ever and defensive talent was not the issue.
Peters, Chris Jones and Ford were all drafted by Dorsey. Dorsey definitely could have done much better drafting on D but his drafting on the other side of the ball was so good it really helped mitigate that problem. [Reply]
Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19:
I do think it’s ironic that the same people who bitched and bitched about the lack of defensive talent over the last few years want to crown Dorsey as the greatest GM alive.
A defense that was largely built by him. We can’t even name 3 above average defenders that he drafted here.
Dee Ford and Marcus Peters, for starters. Chris Jones. Steven Nelson was also a good draft pick.
The issue with his picks on defense aren't that he made a lot of bad ones, it's that he rarely put his best draft capital towards that side of the ball. Kpassagnon is his only true 'bad' defensive draft pick. Russell not even making the team out of camp is pretty bad as well for a 3rd rounder. Gaines is a pick that everyone has on their resume and anything after the 4th - meh, who cares? Those are overwhelmingly likely to fail anyway.
His first high-end defensive draft pick EVER as a GM was Denzel Ward, a pick he was panned for that looks to have been spectacular in hindsight. Ward looked the part of the next great cover corner in this league (though the 2 concussions in December is obviously worrisome).
Dorsey emphasized offense in his drafts but his defensive picks in the first 2 days were very productive players. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make there. [Reply]
Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19:
I do think it’s ironic that the same people who bitched and bitched about the lack of defensive talent over the last few years want to crown Dorsey as the greatest GM alive.
A defense that was largely built by him. We can’t even name 3 above average defenders that he drafted here.
Originally Posted by Chief_N_Bama:
I have literally ZERO respect for the football I.Q. on this forum... so using the opinions of this site as evidence... well... LOL...
You do realize that in his 10 sack season he got most of those sacks in a short window. Most of that season he didn't do anything. So legitimately he's had one good season. I believe that this is more of an anomaly (contract year stuff) than a sign of things to come. If I am wrong I will gladly eat crow. [Reply]
Originally Posted by PAChiefsGuy:
It goes both ways. It cracks me up when guys like you bash Dorsey for not drafting a lot of D talent but last season you claimed Sutton was the worst DC ever and defensive talent was not the issue.
Peters, Chris Jones and Ford were all drafted by Dorsey. Dorsey definitely could have done much better drafting on D but his drafting on the other side of the ball was so good it really helped mitigate that problem.
Bad talent and bad coaching combined is how you get a defense as bad as what KC has last year. So that is what it is.
He got them a few really good to great players on D, but when Dorsey missed, he missed BIG. So many guys who belong in the AAF essentially. [Reply]
Originally Posted by O.city:
In a league built on throwing the ball around, we want to build a defense based on stopping the run?
I mean sure, get better vs the run. But you're telling me Dee Ford is the sole reason the Chiefs get gashed vs the run and you can't make improvements tot he 10 other guys out there so you can keep some pass rush?
The Chiefs have a high powered offense that's going to get them a lot of leads. It would be nice to be able to rush the passer.
I think Ford is one of the primary reasons if you play him at DE in an even front. Yes.
In a league built around throwing the ball, the number one way to beat Mahomes is to keep him off the field. Teams aren’t going to try to shootout with KC. They’re going to try to run the crap out of the ball and kill clock and limit possessions. So yeah, I think sacrificing some pass rush to be more stout against the run and less prone to giving up long, clock-killing drives is the way to go.
I don’t think they’re rolling with Kpassignon and Speaks. I think the plan is different. [Reply]
