Originally Posted by DaFace:
The issue I have with this discussion is that people try to make it sound simpler than it is and then throw out the information that doesn't support their opinion.
The Chiefs are the most penalized team in the NFL, while the Rams are #27. We average 9 penalties per game. They average 6. There were 13 penalties called on the Chiefs that game. There were 8 penalties called on the Rams. Penalties were above average on both teams, but it wasn't dramatically skewed toward favoring the Rams at all.
Getting into the weeds a little more, we are the #1 team in the league for defensive holding calls and the #3 team for defensive pass interference.
So if you're arguing that the refs intentionally favored the Rams in that game, you're basically claiming that there has been a systematic effort across the entire league to call penalties on the Chiefs defensive backfield. You know? The defensive backfield that is known pretty definitively to be awful. And what do DBs who suck tend to do when they're beat? They grab and pull on WRs to try and not let a big play happen.
The issue here when it comes to discussion is that it's tiring to constantly take 10-15 minutes to pull the data to refute these claims from people who don't actually take any time to think through what they're claiming and see if there's a simpler answer to what might be causing the trend they're seeing. So instead, the posts on here are dominated by people saying the refs are all in some giant conspiracy.
But you tell me what is more difficult to believe: the Chiefs DBs suck, or the entire league's officiating crews are in a conspiracy against the Chiefs (that is apparently failing since we're the #1 seed right now)?
I've also always said I don't think there a conspiracy against the Chiefs, that whole Rams game narrative was setup as a feel good for a burning city. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Bugeater:
Yes, you are correct about that, but for the most part we know who they are. And to be honest I don't pay a lot of attention to PGM's posts but I don't know him to be one of those people. The post DaFace responded to referred to a single game example, but yet he played the league wide conspiracy card anyway.
In a way, I think it's just another example of how people try and pretend that there's a direct, causal relationship between a team's inherent strength and wins, when the reality is that luck plays a much greater role in the game than anyone wants to believe.
Sometimes that luck comes in the form of injuries. Sometime's it's field conditions (e.g., a team with a great power running game will probably benefit from a game in a monsoon). Sometimes it's a player getting booted from the league for getting into a drunken scuffle with a girl. Sometimes it's just a guy dropping a ball in a key situation. And sometimes it's because a ref crew is pickier about penalties that your team can get away with from other crews.
All of the above are part of the game. None of the above are conspiracies. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DaFace:
In a way, I think it's just another example of how people try and pretend that there's a direct, causal relationship between a team's inherent strength and wins, when the reality is that luck plays a much greater role in the game than anyone wants to believe.
Sometimes that luck comes in the form of injuries. Sometime's it's field conditions (e.g., a team with a great power running game will probably benefit from a game in a monsoon). Sometimes it's a player getting booted from the league for getting into a drunken scuffle with a girl. Sometimes it's just a guy dropping a ball in a key situation. And sometimes it's because a ref crew is pickier about penalties that your team can get away with from other crews.
All of the above are part of the game. None of the above are conspiracies.
Right... the most penalized team in the league in general, is largely being penalized for pre-snap penalties (which are not subjective) and holding/DPI in a secondary with a very low talent level. None of those things are surprising.
Also, we haven't updated the penalties thread recently but the Chiefs are above average in almost every type of penalty. It's not just holding or DPI or the subjective ones.
Team discipline is low, and we have guys who aren't good enough to be 1 and 2 corners playing 1 and 2, so you end up with a lot of grabbing and holding and DPI. [Reply]
Originally Posted by KC-TBB:
The real conspiracy is to believe there are no conspiracies out there...kinda like the whole, "just because your paranoid doesn't mean no one is following you" thing...:-)
Sure as long as the conspiracy makes a lick of logical or common sense.
There are really weird coverup things going on with a 3rd bomber in the OKC bombing and talk of an FBI informant, who then mysteriously is never mentioned again. Is it possible there was a 3rd bomber who was somehow informing the FBI but they still failed to stop the bomb, so they're covering the whole thing up to save face? Yes I believe that is in the realm of possibility.
However, is it in the realm of possibility that 1000s of people, including the world's most evil controlled demolition team (who have no problem killing 1000s of innocent Americans), conspired to rig the twin towers and Bldg. 7 (for some reason) to blow up, skulking around planting precision charges in a working office building for months, and no one noticed them, nor has anyone ever talked. Not one. All for the dubious goal of making sure the buildings fall, because just planes crashing into the buildings wasn't enough. Or something. Motivation is unclear - we just know THINGS DON'T ADD UP.
One of these things is not like the other. And don't even get me started on a bunch of kids not really being killed at an elementary school, but the international media is all in on it, the fake parents are all paid actors - but no one from this small town realizes that the kids and parents aren't real.
Now - by the same token for the NFL and this thread - is it possible Goodell emphasizes certain penalties or brings in a crew to get the desired shootout he wants? Yes. Is it even possible refs sort of know that keeping things close will keep them in good graces with the league? Yeah - and that really bugs me.
But is Goodell maniacally pulling levers, directing things to happen during the games, and conspiring with casinos to rig games and all the refs are in on it? No that's ridiculous. The second you say something like that out loud you open yourself to a massive scandal. So you're limited to what you can nudge w/o really explicitly saying it.
The same goes for anyone who thinks Berry doesn't want to be back on that field. The worst case scenario is it is kind of a mental game and he doesn't trust his achilles, which sucks. But there is no way he's just sitting there counting his money and laughing. That's just stupid. [Reply]
One thing that might help is to make all flags reviewable. Every single one. But the standard has to be a lot higher. Like if it's at all close the call stands.
That way if the refs call a BS defensive holding in a gigantic spot at least teams have a chance to do something about it.
There are other sports where judgement calls are reviewable. It's not impossible. [Reply]
Originally Posted by KC-TBB:
The real conspiracy is to believe there are no conspiracies out there...kinda like the whole, "just because your paranoid doesn't mean no one is following you" thing...:-)
So I asked the librarian where I could find books on paranoia, she looked me dead in the eye and whispered "they're right behind you". [Reply]
I get being frustrated with his contract. I get being frustrated that he’s barely played over the last two years. I get that his comments after the LAC game were...uhhh...less than comforting.
But I still don’t get hating the man. The dude fucking beat cancer then came back and balled the fuck out. [Reply]
