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The Lounge>***Official 2019-2020 Missouri Tigers Basketball Thread***
dlphg9 09:50 AM 11-06-2019
So since no one else is going to start this thread I guess I will. We have a few new players that hopefully can contribute big time. This year's incoming class is led by 4 star recruit Tray Jackson, a 6' 8" PF, that was ranked as the number 84 recruit in the nation. Included in the class are two 3 star recruits Mario McKinney and Kobe Brown.

Coming off a disappointing 2018-2019 season in which they went 15-17, but lost the best player on the team before the season started, hopefully they can get back to the NCAA tourney again and maybe win a couple games. This is a big year for Martin and hopefully this is the year everything comes together.
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dlphg9 10:01 AM 12-08-2019
Originally Posted by Sully:
What the ****...

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
What?
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'Hamas' Jenkins 03:52 PM 12-21-2019
This team confuses the hell out of me.
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DJ's left nut 04:06 PM 12-21-2019
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins:
This team confuses the hell out of me.
Mark Smith and Tilmon combine for 4 points and they beat a quality team on a neutral court. I have no idea how they did that.

But I'm pretty convinced at this point that Jeremiah Tilmon just isn't very good. I don't know if he's just overthought himself into oblivion, but he's a disaster out there.
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duncan_idaho 04:17 PM 12-21-2019
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Mark Smith and Tilmon combine for 4 points and they beat a quality team on a neutral court. I have no idea how they did that.

But I'm pretty convinced at this point that Jeremiah Tilmon just isn't very good. I don't know if he's just overthought himself into oblivion, but he's a disaster out there.
Illinois is not a good shooting team and shot the ball even worse than normal today. That was the deal.

They also - weirdly - don't have a stretch 4 who can make 3s, which is generally an Achilles' heel for this team.
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Titty Meat 04:39 PM 12-21-2019
Eh I think calling Illinois a "good" team might be a bit of a stretch. Underwood should have stayed at OSU.
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dlphg9 01:54 PM 01-02-2020
Saturday is gonna be exciting. Gonna have to beat UK and the officials.
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dlphg9 11:49 PM 01-04-2020
What a god damn surprise

MU - 28 Personal Fouls

Kentucky - 19 Personal Fouls

MU made more FG and 3 pointers, but lost by 12 because of FTs.
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Prison Bitch 07:53 AM 01-08-2020
7 min till tip


Mizzou Arena is jumpin tonight pic.twitter.com/gtBQ7hSHoZ

— B Turn (@bturner23) January 8, 2020

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OKchiefs 08:53 AM 01-08-2020
Anyone really think CM is going to turn around this sinking ship? One of the worst recruiting classes in the country and the current group of players is showing zero growth despite supposedly being the deepest we've had under CM. And not that it's his fault, but of course we yet again lose one of our top players for a significant chunk of the season. This is depressing.
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DJ's left nut 09:14 AM 01-08-2020
Originally Posted by Prison Bitch:
7 min till tip


I was at the game; it was about 2/3 full by tip.

The student section was essentially empty but that's not surprising as school hasn't started back up yet so they're not in town.

Disappointing game - just could not buy a bucket. Pinson was just an Nth off all night; had 2 three pointers halfway down that rimmed out and a couple bunnies that he did a great job driving to create that he also just ticked off the rim. Mark Smith was as passive as I've ever seen him; wasn't looking for his shot and wasn't terribly active on defense. Was glad to see Jackson looking for ways to get involved and happy to see McKinney get some early run even if he's clearly not ready yet.

They did some good things last night but they just couldn't shoot. And unfortunately, TN started drilling 3s late to pull ahead. Now that doesn't say anything about the 3 or 4 WIDE OPEN three balls they hit earlier in the game when the D was just not closing out on shooters, but some of those shots TN hit late were tough, contested balls that TN doesn't usually hit and last night they did.

And not to go Full Pete or anything, but I still do not understand how Mizzou can't get calls at home. I swear they get better officiating on the road than they do at Mizzou Arena. And last night it was ONE FUCKING GUY. Shorter black dude with the shaved head was getting all up in his emotions anytime he got to blow a whistle on Mizzou. The other 2 weren't generally boning us but holy shit, there were at least 4 questionable calls last night that the one official emphatically called against Mizzou and it really bogged things down in the middle of that game (when Mizzou held a lead with about 5 left to play, IIRC).

It's hard to watch this team continue to regress offensively and believe Martin's a long-term answer. I REALLY like the guy, but this is a stone-aged offense. I'm a relatively informed basketball fan but have never played it at an organized level. When I can see the difference between the system Barnes is running and the one Martin is running, that's a pretty big problem. Someone who hasn't played organized basketball shouldn't be able to watch those two squads and realize "Damn, they're just far more creative on offense..."

They can't fire Cuonzo until 2021, but I have to believe they can get him an assistant that can do something about the offensive efficiency.
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duncan_idaho 09:52 AM 01-08-2020
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
I was at the game; it was about 2/3 full by tip.



The student section was essentially empty but that's not surprising as school hasn't started back up yet so they're not in town.



Disappointing game - just could not buy a bucket. Pinson was just an Nth off all night; had 2 three pointers halfway down that rimmed out and a couple bunnies that he did a great job driving to create that he also just ticked off the rim. Mark Smith was as passive as I've ever seen him; wasn't looking for his shot and wasn't terribly active on defense. Was glad to see Jackson looking for ways to get involved and happy to see McKinney get some early run even if he's clearly not ready yet.



They did some good things last night but they just couldn't shoot. And unfortunately, TN started drilling 3s late to pull ahead. Now that doesn't say anything about the 3 or 4 WIDE OPEN three balls they hit earlier in the game when the D was just not closing out on shooters, but some of those shots TN hit late were tough, contested balls that TN doesn't usually hit and last night they did.



And not to go Full Pete or anything, but I still do not understand how Mizzou can't get calls at home. I swear they get better officiating on the road than they do at Mizzou Arena. And last night it was ONE FUCKING GUY. Shorter black dude with the shaved head was getting all up in his emotions anytime he got to blow a whistle on Mizzou. The other 2 weren't generally boning us but holy shit, there were at least 4 questionable calls last night that the one official emphatically called against Mizzou and it really bogged things down in the middle of that game (when Mizzou held a lead with about 5 left to play, IIRC).



It's hard to watch this team continue to regress offensively and believe Martin's a long-term answer. I REALLY like the guy, but this is a stone-aged offense. I'm a relatively informed basketball fan but have never played it at an organized level. When I can see the difference between the system Barnes is running and the one Martin is running, that's a pretty big problem. Someone who hasn't played organized basketball shouldn't be able to watch those two squads and realize "Damn, they're just far more creative on offense..."



They can't fire Cuonzo until 2021, but I have to believe they can get him an assistant that can do something about the offensive efficiency.

Youíre right in all of this.

They already have an assistant on staff - Cornell Mann - who is supposed to be the offensive guru. He was with Hoiberg at Iowa State and is supposedly really good with that style of offensive basketball.

The problem is that Martin doesnít recruit/sign/play players who can play that style of basketball.

He insists on running a slow pace, with traditional centers and power forwards. Heís not willing to go smaller to get more speed and skill on the floor.

Offensively, the design is just trash. They donít run good sets, they donít execute the sets they do run, and most of the players Martin has recruited donít have the ability to create off the dribble.

He also doesnít seem to have patience with the guys he has who can create off the dribble (Pinson on anyone, Brown on bigs, Jackson on bigs).

They could find some offensive efficiency just by playing Kobe Brown primarily as the second big, using Mitchell Smith or Tray Jackson as the biggest big, and using Pinson off the ball. That would space the floor better and open more driving lanes, and also make the screen game work much more efficiently.

Running high screens with guys like Nikko (and even Tilmon, when he doesnít get whistles for an obvious/dumb moving screen) is pointless. Nikko is no threat at all - definitely isnít going to pop, and doesnít move well enough or have enough skill if passed the ball outside 2 ft to be a threat on the roll - so teams can just hedge hard against the ball handler and stifle the action.

Heís stuck in the 1990s with what he wants to do defensively and how he views positions. Which makes the talent he has recruited look worse than it is.

If he played smaller and pushed the pace, theyíd get a lot more out of this collection of talent.

The other thing he does that drives me nuts is the inconsistent rotation. He yanks guys quickly, doesnít pay attention to who has a hot hand, and varies PT widely from game-to-game. Itís hard to get into a flow offensively as a player like that.

They also clearly donít spend much time working on offense in practice. This is evident in lots of ways, but hereís one from last night:

End of the first half, Mizzou has the last shot and calls a timeout to set it up. Tennessee adjust by coming out in a zone D. And Missouri has no clue what to do and ends up taking a contested 30-footer that almost led to a run out for a Tennessee.

A well-coached offensive team would recognize that switch, reorganize, and run a zone oriented play (preferably one that flashes a player who can shoot, pass, or drive to the high posts the weak spot of a 2-3). But nah. They just sat in what they were doing, swung the ball a few times, and took an awful shot.
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dlphg9 10:09 AM 01-08-2020
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
I was at the game; it was about 2/3 full by tip.

The student section was essentially empty but that's not surprising as school hasn't started back up yet so they're not in town.

Disappointing game - just could not buy a bucket. Pinson was just an Nth off all night; had 2 three pointers halfway down that rimmed out and a couple bunnies that he did a great job driving to create that he also just ticked off the rim. Mark Smith was as passive as I've ever seen him; wasn't looking for his shot and wasn't terribly active on defense. Was glad to see Jackson looking for ways to get involved and happy to see McKinney get some early run even if he's clearly not ready yet.

They did some good things last night but they just couldn't shoot. And unfortunately, TN started drilling 3s late to pull ahead. Now that doesn't say anything about the 3 or 4 WIDE OPEN three balls they hit earlier in the game when the D was just not closing out on shooters, but some of those shots TN hit late were tough, contested balls that TN doesn't usually hit and last night they did.

And not to go Full Pete or anything, but I still do not understand how Mizzou can't get calls at home. I swear they get better officiating on the road than they do at Mizzou Arena. And last night it was ONE ****ING GUY. Shorter black dude with the shaved head was getting all up in his emotions anytime he got to blow a whistle on Mizzou. The other 2 weren't generally boning us but holy shit, there were at least 4 questionable calls last night that the one official emphatically called against Mizzou and it really bogged things down in the middle of that game (when Mizzou held a lead with about 5 left to play, IIRC).

It's hard to watch this team continue to regress offensively and believe Martin's a long-term answer. I REALLY like the guy, but this is a stone-aged offense. I'm a relatively informed basketball fan but have never played it at an organized level. When I can see the difference between the system Barnes is running and the one Martin is running, that's a pretty big problem. Someone who hasn't played organized basketball shouldn't be able to watch those two squads and realize "Damn, they're just far more creative on offense..."

They can't fire Cuonzo until 2021, but I have to believe they can get him an assistant that can do something about the offensive efficiency.
Bitch is obsessed with attendance and loves to pick out obscure games that have lower attendence, but if you used common sense you could figure out why it's not packed. He really likes early spring Royals games that occur at 1205 on a Thursday.
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DJ's left nut 10:10 AM 01-08-2020
I'm not sure I completely agree with you on your 'patience' concerns, at least as they relate to Pinson and Brown.

You can see steam coming out of his ears at times with Pinson but he's really stood by him as he's learned. Pinson has grown a lot but still makes some unbelievably stupid mistakes at times (there's a LOT of Phil Pressey in the kid) and he usually has to make 2 or 3 of those in a row before Cuonzo finally sits him. Sometimes he gives Pinson a little too much rope, IMO.

As for Brown, I mean he's had a true freshman who was a late signee starting most of the year. That's pretty impressive. I think he's let Brown play through some issues as well. The problem with Brown is that he has GOT to start shooting as well as he thinks he can. I like Kobe Brown's potential a lot but right now the kid's putting up 3 triples/gm and hitting on 20% of them. I mean damn man, how much rope can you really give a guy like that? I like that he's a willing rebounder but he's also a ball-stopper. Make him your '2nd big' and you've really hurt yourself in one of his key traits; he's a good rebounder for a stretch 3 but if you're putting him at the 4, he's gonna be overmatched in that regard.

I think Cuonzo has really committed to Brown and probably moreso than his performance has truly warranted. I agree with you that I'd like to see him getting Jackson more involved and I think the TN game was a real positive step there. Jackson looked good last night. Watson....{sigh}....fear he might be a lost cause. There's something there that just isn't working. Watson sure appears to want to be spot-up shooter and he's just not good enough for that. And he doesn't contribute anywhere else when he's not hitting. He plays like Matt Lawrence except Matt Lawrence could actually shoot.

In other words, he plays like Jason Horton. I'm trying to remember a guy who just wanted to float around and miss 3-pointers and the best I can come up with is Teki Gill-Ceaser. This is NOT great company, Torrence. I did not expect this kind of game from him at all.
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F150 10:18 AM 01-08-2020
Originally Posted by duncan_idaho:
Illinois is not a good shooting team and shot the ball even worse than normal today. That was the deal.

They also - weirdly - don't have a stretch 4 who can make 3s, which is generally an Achilles' heel for this team.

Purdue would say otherwise....

Illinois looks terribly inconsistent but when on, they are pretty solid.

The Mizzou win looking more like a lightning strike level of luck. Ill was off and Mizzou played better than they have this season
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dlphg9 11:12 AM 01-12-2020
This team looks really fucking good at some points. What's the deal with Tray Jackson and his playing time? In 7 games he's had 9+ minutes, 4 games in which he's had less than 4 minutes, and 3 games he didn't even play. Then you have that no talent piece of shit Reed Nikko averaging 10 minutes a game getting 2.6 ppg and 2.3 RPG. He basically does nothing well and he's taking ti.e away from a guy that is talented, athletic, and would benefit from some extra minutes. Hell look at his Tennessee game, Jackson had 11 points in 9 minutes, got to the FT line 4 times, and had 3 rebounds. How did Martin not let him stay in?
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