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The Lounge>***Official 2019-2020 Missouri Tigers Basketball Thread***
dlphg9 09:50 AM 11-06-2019
So since no one else is going to start this thread I guess I will. We have a few new players that hopefully can contribute big time. This year's incoming class is led by 4 star recruit Tray Jackson, a 6' 8" PF, that was ranked as the number 84 recruit in the nation. Included in the class are two 3 star recruits Mario McKinney and Kobe Brown.

Coming off a disappointing 2018-2019 season in which they went 15-17, but lost the best player on the team before the season started, hopefully they can get back to the NCAA tourney again and maybe win a couple games. This is a big year for Martin and hopefully this is the year everything comes together.
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HonestChieffan 07:46 AM 11-27-2019
Hard to get top talent to go to schools that are not really known as a Basketball School.
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duncan_idaho 08:25 AM 11-27-2019
Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry:
Bullshit on the St. Louis recruiting - Tilmon, Watson, Smith, McKinney, Pickett. You lost out on two studs to the bluest of the blue bloods and a kid who grew up idolizing Orlando Pace so he chose Ohio State.

Tilmon was a great flip. Smith was a good transfer to receive (though he lost him out of HS). Watson and McKinney are solid recruits and he should have a few guys like that in each class.

Pickett is a JAG.

Originally Posted by Rams Fan:
Cuonzoís recruiting style doesnít rely on having a roster filled with multiple one and dones.

Give him time. Heís a good recruiter and he is what he is at this point, a clean, above average coach who will have a consistent floor(tournament with NITs) and a relatively low ceiling. Thereís nothing wrong with that but to act as if heís anything else at this point is misjudging what his track record is as well as what the program aspires to do. If Mizzou wanted to change those expectations, they should have hired a different coach or have Cuonzo significantly change his recruiting style.

And basketball is like football in that it takes time, unless you recruit one and dones to fill the majority of your roster.

I was never a fan of the hire when the rumors first started circulating, because of his history and because he was a solid-not-great recruiter at Tennessee and Cal.

Those in his corner and pushing for him SWORE left and right that he would elevate his recruiting on a year-to-year basis and lock down St. Louis (not necessarily the top 20 guys, but the guys outside it like EJ Liddell and Courtney Ramey).

They didnít hire him and pay him a top 20 coaches salary to be the same coach he had been. The idea was he would elevate his recruiting and coaching and be worth the top 20 salary.

I reject whole heartedly the idea it takes
4-5 years to rebuild in college basketball. It doesnít require one and dones, either. Transfers, and juniors and sophomores in your program are enough for a true top 20 coach to get highs headed north.

I agree Mizzou should have hired a different coach.

Martin isnít awful - we just saw that - but he isnít anything special, either. I wouldnít describe him as an above-average recruiter at this point. Just average. Above average recruiters donít waste scholarships on people like Jordan Wilmore (the current lone member of next yearís recruiting class) and Axel Okongo (a JUcO big who was bad at JUCO but who they fought for getting 2 years). Theyíre going to have both of those guys on the roster next year, and itís an absolute waste.

Does he have time to turn it around? Sure. But it pretty much all rests on 1) actually landing Josh Christopher; 2) landing a quality post as a grad transfer or immediately eligible player.

Otherwise, next yearís team will be exactly the same (minus Tilmon, whoís going to go somewhere and make money playing hoops once this year is over) as this yearís.
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'Hamas' Jenkins 08:39 AM 11-27-2019
Originally Posted by duncan_idaho:
Tilmon was a great flip. Smith was a good transfer to receive (though he lost him out of HS). Watson and McKinney are solid recruits and he should have a few guys like that in each class.

Pickett is a JAG.




I was never a fan of the hire when the rumors first started circulating, because of his history and because he was a solid-not-great recruiter at Tennessee and Cal.

Those in his corner and pushing for him SWORE left and right that he would elevate his recruiting on a year-to-year basis and lock down St. Louis (not necessarily the top 20 guys, but the guys outside it like EJ Liddell and Courtney Ramey).

They didn’t hire him and pay him a top 20 coaches salary to be the same coach he had been. The idea was he would elevate his recruiting and coaching and be worth the top 20 salary.

I reject whole heartedly the idea it takes
4-5 years to rebuild in college basketball. It doesn’t require one and dones, either. Transfers, and juniors and sophomores in your program are enough for a true top 20 coach to get highs headed north.

I agree Mizzou should have hired a different coach.

Martin isn’t awful - we just saw that - but he isn’t anything special, either. I wouldn’t describe him as an above-average recruiter at this point. Just average. Above average recruiters don’t waste scholarships on people like Jordan Wilmore (the current lone member of next year’s recruiting class) and Axel Okongo (a JUcO big who was bad at JUCO but who they fought for getting 2 years). They’re going to have both of those guys on the roster next year, and it’s an absolute waste.

Does he have time to turn it around? Sure. But it pretty much all rests on 1) actually landing Josh Christopher; 2) landing a quality post as a grad transfer or immediately eligible player.

Otherwise, next year’s team will be exactly the same (minus Tilmon, who’s going to go somewhere and make money playing hoops once this year is over) as this year’s.
Regarding Tilmon:

When you say somewhere, I assume you mean overseas? Because guys like Tilmon don't have much of a place in the modern NBA.
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duncan_idaho 08:41 AM 11-27-2019
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins:
Regarding Tilmon:

When you say somewhere, I assume you mean overseas? Because guys like Tilmon don't have much of a place in the modern NBA.

Yes. He has a three-year old and is ready to go make some money.

Players like Tilmon barely have a place in college basketball. Heís a real liability defensively against the pick and roll with a good pop shooter.

And yet Cuonzo keeps recruiting them. Axel Okongo and Jordan Wilmore are bigger, less agile, less athletic, and less skilled than Tilmon.
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duncan_idaho 08:48 AM 11-27-2019
Originally Posted by HonestChieffan:
Hard to get top talent to go to schools that are not really known as a Basketball School.

Erroneous.
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ChiefsCountry 11:47 AM 11-27-2019
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins:
The state had 5 Top 150 kids this year, all in the greater St. Louis area, and Mizzou got none of them. Fletcher went to Kentucky, Love to UNC, but the other three went to K-State and Creighton.

It's a fair criticism.
Kasubke is a MVC top line recruit and took the best offer to K-State. Bradford is the biggest miss. Kalkbrenner is hard to say. Most of his top choices were top academic schools ie Stanford, Georgia Tech, Purdue before choosing Creighton.

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho:
Tilmon was a great flip. Smith was a good transfer to receive (though he lost him out of HS). Watson and McKinney are solid recruits and he should have a few guys like that in each class.
Smith chose Illinois out of high school because of Harris coming at the Porter's request I'm pretty certain.
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'Hamas' Jenkins 12:18 PM 11-27-2019
Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry:
Kasubke is a MVC top line recruit and took the best offer to K-State. Bradford is the biggest miss. Kalkbrenner is hard to say. Most of his top choices were top academic schools ie Stanford, Georgia Tech, Purdue before choosing Creighton.



Smith chose Illinois out of high school because of Harris coming at the Porter's request I'm pretty certain.
It would appear that Flake Harris left NC State last month, which means he will be on his third college team after playing for three high school teams. Jesus.
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TrebMaxx 02:34 PM 11-27-2019
Tilmon seems to be a turnover machine (16 so far this year) along with his stupid fouls. Sometimes he flashes but I also think sometimes the team plays better when he is not in.
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'Hamas' Jenkins 09:10 PM 12-03-2019
Holy fucking shit. This team is terrible.
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Jerm 09:12 PM 12-03-2019
I know Martin's contract is protected (which is idiotic)...luckily for him though or Sterk could be conducting 2 searches.
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WhawhaWhat 11:23 PM 12-03-2019

The lowest-ranked KenPom teams to beat Missouri at Mizzou Arena (ratings at the time of the game)
19-20: Charleston Southern, No. 313
14-15: UMKC, 286
16-17: Eastern Illinois, 247
16-17: Lipscomb, 235
05-06: Sam Houston State, 182

— Dave Matter (@Dave_Matter) December 4, 2019

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dlphg9 01:14 AM 12-04-2019
Such a bad bad loss. Dear God.
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DJ's left nut 08:47 AM 12-04-2019
Yeah, that's unbelievably bad.

Now Charleston Southern (a miserable team from deep) got weirdly hot from behind the line in that game, but still - 45 points in a half to that team is just completely unacceptable.

I don't really know what the hell to do about the turnovers at this point. For 2 years I could make excuses when the team had basically one ballhandler and that was Jordan Geist, who wasn't particularly good at it. Pinson was a freshman so that's youth at work.

But now you have Smith, Smith and Pinson with a year under his belt. Kobe Brown can even handle the ball a bit. Pickett tends to be a smart player who will make the right pass so long as it's a basic one.

At this point it just seems like it has to be a coaching issue; something that isn't being prioritized.

The turnovers being a constant and the seemingly routine poor starts against quality opponents are just things you almost HAVE to pin on Martin at this point.
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duncan_idaho 09:15 AM 12-04-2019
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Yeah, that's unbelievably bad.

Now Charleston Southern (a miserable team from deep) got weirdly hot from behind the line in that game, but still - 45 points in a half to that team is just completely unacceptable.

I don't really know what the hell to do about the turnovers at this point. For 2 years I could make excuses when the team had basically one ballhandler and that was Jordan Geist, who wasn't particularly good at it. Pinson was a freshman so that's youth at work.

But now you have Smith, Smith and Pinson with a year under his belt. Kobe Brown can even handle the ball a bit. Pickett tends to be a smart player who will make the right pass so long as it's a basic one.

At this point it just seems like it has to be a coaching issue; something that isn't being prioritized.

The turnovers being a constant and the seemingly routine poor starts against quality opponents are just things you almost HAVE to pin on Martin at this point.

Well, they spend practically no time at practice on offense, apparently. So thatís probably the biggest issue.

That, and Martin isnít a good game coach.

I retract my expectation of this team being on the bubble (but not making it in) in March. Not happening.
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DJ's left nut 09:27 AM 12-04-2019
Originally Posted by duncan_idaho:
Well, they spend practically no time at practice on offense, apparently. So thatís probably the biggest issue.

That, and Martin isnít a good game coach.

I retract my expectation of this team being on the bubble (but not making it in) in March. Not happening.
So what'd they spend time on in practice this week?

How the !@#$ do you give up a 45 point half to Charleston Southern?!?!

{facepalm}
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