Current cap space to be rolled over to 2020 - $21 million
Current cap space projected for 2020 - $1.6 million
People who should be cut after this season. Their replacement in quotes.
Sammy Watkins (Pringle/Hardman) - $14 million cap savings
LDT (Wylie/Rankin) - $5 million cap savings
Daniel Sorenson (literally anybody or Watts) - $3.75 million cap savings
Cameron Erving (literally anybody) - $3.25 million cap savings
Damien Williams (Thompson) - $2.3 million cap savings
Dustin Colquitt (It's a punter...come on) - $1.35 million cap savings
That's 6 cuts that we should have no problem finding a replacement for.
Projected cap space for 2020 after cuts - $31 million
We could add more by making Anthony Hitchens a June 1st cut. That would put his dead cap space in 2020 at
$4.2 million and his cap savings at $8.5 million. It would only save us roughly $2 million in 2021 and then
$11 million in 2022. I think he's overpaid but a decent #2 LB.
So, if we roll over the cap space from this year, and with the 6 cuts, we should be at $52 million in
cap space.
We're obviously going to need that cap space for Mahomes but we will only have 2 CBs under contract
(Ward and Fenton). We also will have 4 DEs under contract (Clark, Okafor, KPass and Speaks). I think
some of that cap space should be to bring Ogbah back if it isn't a huge amount of money. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
nah, you GOTTA let Sammy walk. Just gotta.
I guess there is a possibility that we could extend him. Problem is that even if you stuck him out there 3 years and didn't add a ton of money, the 9-10 it would take would still seem steep. And that's before he probably wouldn't take it. [Reply]
I like Sammy, hope things end well here and he gets a ring this season. But he gone after that. No doubt about it.
Just not enough cash or opportunity to go around. Hill and Kelce are the money makers at this point and I think you have to hope for good progression out of Hardman. He should become best buddies with Tyreek and Patrick this offseason if he wants to reach his max potential eventually, which resides somewhere in the realm of Desean Jackson IMO (the comp I gave him during the draft). [Reply]
Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19:
I like Sammy, hope things end well here and he gets a ring this season. But he gone after that. No doubt about it.
Just not enough cash or opportunity to go around. Hill and Kelce are the money makers at this point and I think you have to hope for good progression out of Hardman. He should become best buddies with Tyreek and Patrick this offseason if he wants to reach his max potential eventually, which resides somewhere in the realm of Desean Jackson IMO (the comp I gave him during the draft).
I worry about both Robinson and Watkins leaving the same year - It seems like most receivers need more than a year to really contribute, so you'd be relying on getting meaningful snaps from both Pringle and Kemp even if you draft someone.
Still, Watkins has to go, it's just maybe that Robinson comes back on a small ish deal. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Chargem:
I worry about both Robinson and Watkins leaving the same year - It seems like most receivers need more than a year to really contribute, so you'd be relying on getting meaningful snaps from both Pringle and Kemp even if you draft someone.
Still, Watkins has to go, it's just maybe that Robinson comes back on a small ish deal.
Could be the case as far as Robinson coming back. Or they could elect to make some sacrifices at that spot for the sake of improving elsewhere (OL, CB, etc).
Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19:
I like Sammy, hope things end well here and he gets a ring this season. But he gone after that. No doubt about it.
Just not enough cash or opportunity to go around. Hill and Kelce are the money makers at this point and I think you have to hope for good progression out of Hardman. He should become best buddies with Tyreek and Patrick this offseason if he wants to reach his max potential eventually, which resides somewhere in the realm of Desean Jackson IMO (the comp I gave him during the draft).
I think there is a chance Watkins market has dried up. Elite talent but didn’t get a second contract either place he’s been. He’ll get it because they do, but if I my team laid out big money for a guy that didn’t produce with Mahomes I’d be a little miffed. It won’t be free, but I think he could maybe (probably not) be extended and get his Aav cheaper. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Yeah, here's my long-ass review on that from a different thread:
Spoiler!
The Chiefs have, with rollover, an 'adjusted cap' of $222 million. Let's just go to $220 million because there are probably some incentives that will trigger by the end of the year.
They have $198 million in commitments for next season ($190 plus about $8 million in dead money).
If they cut Watkins, that gets them another $14 million. A post June 1 cut of Hitchens frees up another $8 million. Cutting LDT frees up $5 million, Sorensen $3.75 million, Erving $4.6 million, Damien Williams $2.3 million and Colquitt $2 million.
So let's just cut all of 'em. That would free up another $39 million in space. The dead money charge for 2021 wouldn't be a lot of fun but you're 'forward funding' it by clearing rollover for next season. You're probably taking about $7 million off of that due to draft picks; we'll round down to $6 though.
All told the Chiefs could get to about $55 million in cap space for next season without any real long-term damage done. Now they'd do that without a swing tackle, no Jones, no starting LG, no MLB, no starting RB and only a couple of CBs under contract and little/no DL depth, but it's possible. If you presume they add 7 draft picks to the roster, that would also only have them at 40 players.
So with that $55 million let's assume they've added a CB in the 1st round. They'll need to find a couple of starting LBs, a potential starting CB, a couple of solid veteran CBs, a starting RB, a starting G, at least one starting LB (potentially 2 as Ragland and Lee are gone as well; Wilson's the only holdover starter at that point).
Let's say you need to add 6 guys who are either starters or at least guys like Okafor who are 'starter capable'. Would you say it's fair to average those sorts of guys at roughly $6 million/per? Let's be optimistic and say $5 million per. That soaks up about $30 million of that and you probably haven't added a single 'difference maker' in that lot; that's a whole lot of Okafor level talent you'd be adding.
So now you're up to 46 players with those additions AND draft picks. You're down to roughly $25 million in cap space. At that point you're really doing anything you can with Mahomes and his camp to ensure that his extension doesn't start until the 2021 season. He might do it - but he might not. It's just money he's leaving on the table. If he insists on ripping up the 4th year of his deal on an extension, you're adding at least $20 million to the cap and that's if you're fortunate enough to get his year 1 hit down to $25 million (in lieu of his existing $20 million).
Now you're just filling in the roster with minimum level guys. So unless you're going to bring back some of the above options in your '$5 million/season' pool, most if not all of them are gone.
We're essentially seeing the same thing.
There's not a lot of wiggle on this roster for next season at all. At best you're looking a a 40 man roster w/ $50 million in cap space and holes EVERYWHERE. And no Chris Jones.
The 'work' Veach has done the last 2 offseasons has landed this team directly in a shitty cap situation and has yielded next to no positive returns. When Mathieu at about 40% more than you'd have needed to pay him a year prior is the BEST outcome of your recent ventures into big-money deals, you really need to reconsider your approach.
Because Mathieu isn't even going to live up to his deal, let alone the other guys we've brought in.
Originally Posted by Pasta Giant Meatball: :-) This aged well
They are wrong about not living up to the contract. But I think it is true that it will take some cap wizardry to keep a lot of the roster or add anything decent. I don't know the NFL's cap as well, so I'm not sure on what all we can do. But hopefully we find a way to keep the roster strong. [Reply]
I think they can afford Chris Jones with Mahomes elite contract like they want to. I think they should consider some moves though.
1. If Sammy wants to stay here, he needs to drastically lower that cap hit. Dude is a luxury item who said he loves being here. Well Sammy, if you wanna stay, extend that deal by a year or two and lower that cap hit by at least 40%. He’s made $54 million in the league. That’s more than enough Sammy. Let us give you another nice signing bonus of $20 million so you can give us a couple more years of reasonable cap hits, okay?
2. Add 2 years to Kelce’s contract and lower that cap hit. He’s clearly a young 30 in only his 6th year playing. That will lower the cap right now for rollover purposes.
3. Obviously get rid of expendable contracts like Cam Erving.
While we’re at it, I’d add a year to Damien Wilson’s contract. He has more than earned that. He’s still very cheap. [Reply]
Originally Posted by RunKC:
I think they can afford Chris Jones with Mahomes elite contract like they want to. I think they should consider some moves though.
1. If Sammy wants to stay here, he needs to drastically lower that cap hit. Dude is a luxury item who said he loves being here. Well Sammy, if you wanna stay, extend that deal by a year or two and lower that cap hit by at least 40%. He’s made $54 million in the league. That’s more than enough Sammy. Let us give you another nice signing bonus of $20 million so you can give us a couple more years of reasonable cap hits, okay?
2. Add 2 years to Kelce’s contract and lower that cap hit. He’s clearly a young 30 in only his 6th year playing. That will lower the cap right now for rollover purposes.
3. Obviously get rid of expendable contracts like Cam Erving.
While we’re at it, I’d add a year to Damien Wilson’s contract. He has more than earned that. He’s still very cheap.
I don't understand the NFL's salary cap as well, but I was wondering about what we will need to do to keep people this off-season.
So is restructuring pretty common? I feel like we have a few players that would need to do that for us to make room. We have way too many bloated contracts like Hitchens and Fisher. And I love Frank Clark, but that contract is astronomical.
We need to find a way to keep Chris Jones if the contract is half reasonable. If we can keep Sammy for cheaper that'd be great, otherwise he will be cut and we need a decent replacement. We need to spread the money out better to upgrade our defense.
I know the draft will be one of the main ways we upgrade as well as maybe some vets in free agency if they take discounts. Other than that, I hope we find a way to retain most of our players. But I would not mind investing capital into the O Line if we need to make trades or pay one. Or a cornerback or linebacker that is worth the money. We need to fix or get rid of some of our terrible contracts if that is possible. [Reply]
We currently have 13.7m in cap space.
We get 14m for trading Sammy Watkins.
We get 5m for trading/cutting LDT.
We can save 5-6m by extending Kelce deal.
Another 4-5m can be saved by adding on a year or 2 to Fishers deal.
That’s about 43m in cap space.
If we give Jones the same deal as Franks, his 2020 cap hit will be 6.5m.
5m for rookies.
Kemp, Yelder and Wylie are exclusive rights free agents...so they will be ultra cheap.
That leaves around 30m left in team cap space and hopefully 2 draft pics in return for LDT and Watkins.
Most GMs like to have 5-7m in space going into the season so that leaves 23-25m to fill the remaining spots.
Pick 3 of these:
CHJ
AJ Green
Emmanuel Sanders
Logan Ryan
Byron Jones
Mackenzie Alexander
Sean Lee
Lorenzo Alexander
Pick 2 of these:
Pennel
Ogbah
Wisnewski
Fuller (he might be priced out of this group. Someone will overpay him)
That’s realistically what we’re looking at.
Veach will need to be smart with his decisions and hit on all of his draft picks again.
Originally Posted by BossChief:
We currently have 13.7m in cap space.
We get 14m for trading Sammy Watkins.
We get 5m for trading/cutting LDT.
We can save 5-6m by extending Kelce deal.
Another 4-5m can be saved by adding on a year or 2 to Fishers deal.
That’s about 43m in cap space.
If we give Jones the same deal as Franks, his 2020 cap hit will be 6.5m.
5m for rookies.
Kemp, Yelder and Wylie are exclusive rights free agents...so they will be ultra cheap.
That leaves around 30m left in team cap space and hopefully 2 draft pics in return for LDT and Watkins.
Most GMs like to have 5-7m in space going into the season so that leaves 23-25m to fill the remaining spots.
Pick 3 of these:
CHJ
AJ Green
Emmanuel Sanders
Logan Ryan
Byron Jones
Mackenzie Alexander
Sean Lee
Lorenzo Alexander
Pick 2 of these:
Pennel
Ogbah
Wisnewski
Fuller (he might be priced out of this group. Someone will overpay him)
That’s realistically what we’re looking at.
Veach will need to be smart with his decisions and hit on all of his draft picks again.
I have faith he will.
This is what I was looking for. The maximum amount of cap we could have to play with. Assuming your numbers are correct, we could actually improve the team. If we could end up with AJ Green and CHJ replacing Watkins and Fuller, that would be upgrades. Now obviously Watkins and Fuller are much younger, but for the short term, that is a good solution.
And then if it leaves us with any extra to sign a linebacker or offensive linemen, that is icing on the cake. I don't know if we would have to lose Chris Jones in that sort of scenario or we could still swing it. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Walt White:
This is what I was looking for. The maximum amount of cap we could have to play with. Assuming your numbers are correct, we could actually improve the team. If we could end up with AJ Green and CHJ replacing Watkins and Fuller, that would be upgrades. Now obviously Watkins and Fuller are much younger, but for the short term, that is a good solution.
And then if it leaves us with any extra to sign a linebacker or offensive linemen, that is icing on the cake. I don't know if we would have to lose Chris Jones in that sort of scenario or we could still swing it.
It's not quite as rosy as it first appears. Those numbers don't include Mahomes getting any kind of increase in 2020 from an extension, which while not huge could be at least $5m.
Also, he cut LDT and didn't list any replacement in his FA/re-signings, so your Oline is even worse going into 2020, or at best "unknown" with a rookie stepping in ahead of Wylie, Rankins or Allegretti.
Plus, saying things like "Jones cap hit would only be $6.5m in 2020" sounds great, but if he's getting $100m over 5 then his cap hit in 2021 is going to be $25m+ at the time when Mahomes contract will also start cranking up, so while you can fit some decent FAs in 2020 you are screwed in 2021. You can only push these things forward a year to delay the inevitable for so long, and this definitely isn't the way to build a dynasty. [Reply]
Assuming Bosschief's numbers are close, I'm a little more optimistic.
But the priority should be IOL, CB, LB.
IOL because we must protect the franchise, and it will make the running game look a lot better than it has.
CB because we have 2 under contract and it's a really expensive position.
LB because the ones we have can't cover for shit.
I'm less worried about WR as long as we beef up the line. If we can keep Pat clean, he'll pick you apart with Hill/Hardman/Kelce/Pringle or whomever in that 4th option spot.
I'm not super worried about RB although it could use some competition. [Reply]
I don't agree with all the people wanting to cut LDT. Are we going to replace him with a 2 mil POS to save money?? That would be counter productive. We need to move forward not backward on the OL. [Reply]
Originally Posted by BossChief:
We currently have 13.7m in cap space.
We get 14m for trading Sammy Watkins.
We get 5m for trading/cutting LDT.
We can save 5-6m by extending Kelce deal.
Another 4-5m can be saved by adding on a year or 2 to Fishers deal.
That’s about 43m in cap space.
If we give Jones the same deal as Franks, his 2020 cap hit will be 6.5m.
5m for rookies.
Kemp, Yelder and Wylie are exclusive rights free agents...so they will be ultra cheap.
That leaves around 30m left in team cap space and hopefully 2 draft pics in return for LDT and Watkins.
Most GMs like to have 5-7m in space going into the season so that leaves 23-25m to fill the remaining spots.
Pick 3 of these:
CHJ
AJ Green
Emmanuel Sanders
Logan Ryan
Byron Jones
Mackenzie Alexander
Sean Lee
Lorenzo Alexander
Pick 2 of these:
Pennel
Ogbah
Wisnewski
Fuller (he might be priced out of this group. Someone will overpay him)
That’s realistically what we’re looking at.
Veach will need to be smart with his decisions and hit on all of his draft picks again.
I have faith he will.
This sounds good now but would be extremely difficult in 2021. Frank Clark has a $24.2 million cap hit and it would be foolish to rework a deal that ends when Frank is 30.
If Chris Jones has a deal similar to Frank, he’ll get around $23 million in year 2 just like Frank. Then you have Pat who is going to be at least a mid 20’s cap hit in 2021 (year 2 of deal) , likely closer to 30.
That is about 35% of your cap for 3 players assuming it grows $10 million a year as it has to $210 million. Even if the CBA blows up, it won’t blow up that quickly. Assuming it does goes crazy and you add $10 million to it to make that $220 million, it’s still about 33% for 3 players.
That’s why keeping Jones is extremely difficult [Reply]
