Originally Posted by PAChiefsGuy:
It's a team game. No one can do it by themselves. You think Mahomes throws for 50 TDs last year if he doesnt have Reid as a HC? Think Montana didnt benefit from having Rice and all the weapons the 49ers have? In basketball, MJ w Phil Jackson?
You cant expect any QB to become the GOAT by themselves. Every one needs some help
Go back and see how many times the refs rescued Montana...you know, if he was trailing in an important game and needed to be bailed out. How many game winning TDs were taken off the board so he could get HFA?
They didn't do that back then...the Manning/Brady era ushered in the manufacturing of fake champions for advertising revue. NFL corporate learned that name brand QBs get higher ratings...as does keeping games artificially close by calling timely penalties. [Reply]
Originally Posted by scho63:
Massive fail of thread and poll and posts with no mention I see of Terry Bradshaw.
I admit that missing Brees is a massive oversight. Does anyone actually think Terry Bradshaw might be the best QB ever? One MVP, two SB MVPs, and three Pro Bowls? That's like his whole resume, other than, of course, four SB wins that were on teams with legendary defenses and running games.
I mean -- 212 TDs and 210 INTs. I know it was a different era...but even for that era, that ain't good. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Amnorix:
I admit that missing Brees is a massive oversight. Does anyone actually think Terry Bradshaw might be the best QB ever? One MVP, two SB MVPs, and three Pro Bowls? That's like his whole resume, other than, of course, four SB wins that were on teams with legendary defenses and running games.
I mean -- 212 TDs and 210 INTs. I know it was a different era...but even for that era, that ain't good.
Agreed. But you put Elway on the list and he shouldn't be. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Hog's Gone Fishin:
Agreed. But you put Elway on the list and he shouldn't be.
I hear you, and I wouldn't put him anywhere close to there, but I do see him mentioned in at least the top 10 if not top 5 with some regularity, whereas I never see Bradshaw mentioned that high. Obviously opinions can differ, and I see Elway has garnered a couple of votes. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Amnorix:
I hear you, and I wouldn't put him anywhere close to there, but I do see him mentioned in at least the top 10 if not top 5 with some regularity, whereas I never see Bradshaw mentioned that high. Obviously opinions can differ, and I see Elway has garnered a couple of votes.
Yeah, but one of those votes has 'crazy' in his name, and other is ... patteeu?
Patteeu? What happened? Did you accidentally click the wrong button? [Reply]
Originally Posted by Hog's Gone Fishin:
Not really. If Brady would have been drafted by Cleveland do you think he'd have even had a career. BB has made Brady what he is and without BB he would have been another Brian Hoyer.
We can play the “Ifs” game basically with every player ever.
BB didn’t win nothing before Brady. BB’s record as a head coach in Cleveland during the 91-95 season was 36-44. He had Bernie Cosar and Testaverde as QBs during that time. He had Bledsoe who was at the time was a top 10 QB. Still didn’t win nothing. Brady won the Super Bowl with the same exact team. BB didn’t win jack shit as a head coach before Brady. [Reply]
The guy was 4-0 in the Super Bowl. And he was absolutely perfect in all 4, never threw an interception in the SB.
Montana played the non-salary cap era. Money bought and keeped the best talent on the same team. Montana’s team was stacked with talent when he was with SF. Stacked like The team that got spanked twice Patriots. You know, the team that cried foul about the over time rules LoL.
People also forget that Montana had 4, 1&done in the playoffs. He never even got the chance to lose the Conference Championships game. He got sent home early in the playoffs. Prob went fishing with Andy Reed. [Reply]
Originally Posted by smithandrew051:
Most mediocre for a long period of time: John Elway
If he was mediocre for a long period of time, we must have REALLY sucked because sadly we were his bitch for most of the time he as QB, minus the Monday Night Miracle with Joe Montana. The GOAT of Super Bowls. [Reply]
Originally Posted by scho63:
If he was mediocre for a long period of time, we must have REALLY sucked because sadly we were his bitch for most of the time he as QB, minus the Monday Night Miracle with Joe Montana. The GOAT of Super Bowls.
The Chiefs and Broncos have played each other 118 times in their history. In those 118 games, the Broncos averaged a score of 20.6 points. The two teams played 33 games against each other from 1983 through 1998, when John Elway was active. In those 33 games, the Broncos averaged a score of 21.1 points. So Elway was worth half a point per game over the likes of Jake Plummer, Trevor Simien, Kelly Tripucka, and Tim Tebow.
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Question: Why doesn't anyone criticize Brees for this?
The dude has 2 of the most inexplicable losses of all time on his playoff resume. The 2010 1st round home playoff loss to a 7-9 football team. A Seahawks team that was losing 35-10 in the 4th quarter the following week to a Lovie Smith coached Bears squad before putting up 2 garbage time scores and losing in a slightly less embarrassing manner.
And being outgunned by Alex Smith.
And people want to give him a pass on that goofy Minnesota loss when his safety missed the tackle and they lost w/ 0:00 on the clock but Drew - maybe don't throw 2 picks? And the Rams PI last year was brutal but Brees was in full dink/dunk mode by then and was incapable of putting the Rams away in that game. The Saints had their foot on the Rams neck in the 1st half and got virtually nothing out of it. With the ball first, an interception (giving them the ball at the Ram 16) and a 3 and out, the Saints converted 1 of those opportunities into 6 because Brees couldn't power the football into small windows in the red zone. Up 20-10 in the 2nd half and the Saints go Punt, Punt, FG to keep the Rams alive.
And for as bad as the PI was - the Saints had the football to start OT and Brees cut their throats with that pick.
Nobody EVER says "hey wait a minute now - what about Brees in the post-season...." but Manning takes worlds of shit for it. Just seems strange to me.
Excellent point. I love Brees but he’s shit the bed a few times. And Manning is continually underrated.
I mean FFS his head coach was brought in to run the buttfucking Tampon 2 and was the mentor of Squirmin Herman Motherfucking Sack of Cunt Edwards (fuck that fucking guy). Let’s be real here. The one thing Dungy was there to do remarkably consistently sucked ass. Manning won despite that fuckhead. If you’re going to discredit Brady for Belicheat you have to give manning a ton of credit for Dungy. And Kubiak isn’t materially better. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Question: Why doesn't anyone criticize Brees for this?
The dude has 2 of the most inexplicable losses of all time on his playoff resume. The 2010 1st round home playoff loss to a 7-9 football team. A Seahawks team that was losing 35-10 in the 4th quarter the following week to a Lovie Smith coached Bears squad before putting up 2 garbage time scores and losing in a slightly less embarrassing manner.
And being outgunned by Alex Smith.
And people want to give him a pass on that goofy Minnesota loss when his safety missed the tackle and they lost w/ 0:00 on the clock but Drew - maybe don't throw 2 picks? And the Rams PI last year was brutal but Brees was in full dink/dunk mode by then and was incapable of putting the Rams away in that game. The Saints had their foot on the Rams neck in the 1st half and got virtually nothing out of it. With the ball first, an interception (giving them the ball at the Ram 16) and a 3 and out, the Saints converted 1 of those opportunities into 6 because Brees couldn't power the football into small windows in the red zone. Up 20-10 in the 2nd half and the Saints go Punt, Punt, FG to keep the Rams alive.
And for as bad as the PI was - the Saints had the football to start OT and Brees cut their throats with that pick.
Nobody EVER says "hey wait a minute now - what about Brees in the post-season...." but Manning takes worlds of shit for it. Just seems strange to me.
Do you want me to unpack this?
Because honestly you're a smart guy. You should be able to figure this out.
There's a very good reason Manning takes shit for his playoff underperformances. They were common, especially early in his career. Taking a cast of all-stars and failing to score 20 points in a ton of losses hurt. If Patrick Mahomes had gone into the playoffs and the team scored 13 points in a loss to the pats, criticism would be justified. Dude threw 49 TD's in a season and their season ended against the Patriots as Manning and his obscenely talented offense put up 3 points. THREE POINTS! He did what Jared Goff did.
Throwing 3 TD's and 7 INT's en route to his first superbowl win wasn't too impressive either. The defense carried them to 3 of those wins.
Not showing up for the second super bowl appearance.
I won't even dignify the last SB win. 20 QB's could have won the SB on that team. Manning wasn't Manning anymore. He was a shadow.
To Manning's credit, he NEVER had an offensive coach like Payton. Not even close. He had Tony Dungy. Jon Fox. So in terms of coaching he was never at an advantage compared to most successful QB's. No Walsh or Holmgren. No Denny Green or Mike Martz. That's the only out he gets. [Reply]
Originally Posted by New World Order:
Brady had all of the pieces fall into place.
Obviously he's good but he's also been blessed with the greatest front office in NFL history, the greatest defensive coach of all-time and a crappy division pretty much his entire career.
If you're talking about talent/offensive production Brady isn't the best.
And Mahomes is playing in the most QB friendly era with a genius offensive HC... So if you are going to criticize Brady for that make sure you bring up what I just mentioned the next time you brag about Mahomes throwing 50 TDs and winning MVP. Can't have it both ways.
Every great QB has had benefits of good to great supporting cast.. Again, team game. [Reply]
