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Originally Posted by NewChief:
It's really interesting, because the different priests/devotees of R'hllor we've seen in the books are all quite different from each other. Thoros of Myr, Melisandre, and the Red Priest that Tyrion (I think?) encounters in ADWD are all very different from each other.
Yes. And seemingly with different powers. I'm confident Thoros can't birth a demon (duh, biology), but Melisandre seemed shocked that Thoros could bring back the dead and/or near-dead. [Reply]
Originally Posted by duncan_idaho:
He is not. He's a false prophet, I think. Melisandre mis-reading what the fire is showing her (which to me indicates that Jon Targaryen is who her visions actually reference).
Sure, if you go by book stuff. Since the books and show apparently tell different stories, I was wondering about what conclusion you would come to by only using show stuff.
However, I don't think Azor Ahai really exists in the show. [Reply]
Originally Posted by MagicHef:
Sure, if you go by book stuff. Since the books and show apparently tell different stories, I was wondering about what conclusion you would come to by only using show stuff.
However, I don't think Azor Ahai really exists in the show.
I don't think they can diverge on something as important and integral to the plot as that.
It's the flaming sword lacking heat thing that makes me think the Red Woman is way off. [Reply]
Originally Posted by duncan_idaho:
I don't think they can diverge on something as important and integral to the plot as that.
It's the flaming sword lacking heat thing that makes me think the Red Woman is way off.
Is it important and integral to the plot? Rheagar was obsessed with it, Aemon had a passing interest, but Melisandre seems to be the only person left that really cares.
If the prophecy turned out to be absolutely nothing, who (in the story) would even notice? [Reply]
Originally Posted by duncan_idaho:
I don't think they can diverge on something as important and integral to the plot as that.
It's the flaming sword lacking heat thing that makes me think the Red Woman is way off.
They discussed Azor Ahai on the show a few times. Melisandre mentions it from time to time in her speeches as she exults Stannis, and Aemon and her had a discussion about it (and he clearly thinks Stannis is not AA because his sword puts off no heat).
In the books, Melisandre is wrong in her visions sometimes (or just misinterprets them), and this appears to be the case with Stannis being AA. In Melisandre's POV chapter in ADWD, she complains to herself that she asks to see Azor Ahai, and all Rhollor shows her is "Snow" (with a capital S). This is one of the reasons people think Jon is really AA. The way that Night King guy was eyeballing Jon in the last episode, I'm thinking Jon must be AA. [Reply]
We have clearly seen that Rhollor the red god has power and exists. He brought back Beric from death several times, he killed the three kings (well two on the show anyway, Balon Greyjoy has merely disappeared) after Melisandre burned the leeches, and he allows the priests like Melisandre to see things in the flames (though not always 100% accurately), etc.
We have seen that there is power in the old gods of the north with the weirwood trees, greenseer visions, warging of animals, the white walkers, the Night King raising the dead, children of the forest, etc.
But the most common religion in Westeros is the Seven, and so far the Seven have done absolutely nothing to show they really exist or have any power. Their only power has been wielded through the Faith Militant that Cersei let come back into power, but that is people, not some act of the Seven as gods. Not sure why this religion is the most popular when it seems the most impotent and useless...so far anyway. You have to wonder if the gods of the Seven will ever make an appearance, and if they do, what power will they have and how will they use it?
Also, what side is Bran fighting on? In the books, Melisandre seems to think Bloodraven (the guy in the weirwood tree) and Bran are enemies of Rhollor. You have to wonder if Bran is fighting for good or evil. Of course, after watching (hearing...ugh) poor Shireen burn, I don't even know if Rhollor is the good side or the bad. Still, burning one child in the earnest belief that it is for the greater good is somewhat less bad than murdering thousands of wildlings and then raising them into your army of the dead, so....
Just like GRRM though to muddy the waters on who is good and who is bad and who you should root for. Amazing the depths and layers to GRRM's story. No wonder it takes him 5 years to write each book. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare:
I haven't read the books, but will the other dragons be released now or are they dead to rights staying in the cave?
In the books, they were released by a character that doesn't exist in the show. So, your guess is as good as anyone else's. [Reply]
I've always thought that the Seven was a play on modern day establishment Christianity vs. the "old" pagan/wiccan religions. Modern day Christianity doesn't promise any kind of magical spells and bewitchment either. Its power is in the fact that it's the establishment. Meanwhile, you have these other religions that promise power as if it's an equation. Sacrifice child = kill a king.
Anyway, I think the Seven is more of a political ideology without any kind of real divine power. The other ones offer divine power... but at what cost? [Reply]
Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare:
from what I was told the Dragons are still adolescents so I assume there are still limitations concerning what they can do.
Magical menstrual blood might turn the black one around but... [Reply]
Originally Posted by vailpass:
A few spears can bother a Dragon? Dragons run out of fire that quickly?
These are the beasts that defeated armies?
Huh?
Well, they aren't well suited for rescue missions where they have to land in a confined area and thus present an easy target, but flying in open air over a battlefield burning the poor fools below them is another story. Plus he took like 6 spears and still flew off just fine, so it's not like a lucky shot with a spear is going to bring it down in an actual battle.
Also I think in the books, the older they get, the tougher their scales, so arrows and small spears don't do anything to a mature dragon. You have to hit it with something bigger, and that is not easy to do with a flying fire-breathing dragon using medieval level technology. But they can be killed, and many were killed in battles. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Hawk:
Well, they aren't well suited for rescue missions where they have to land in a confined area and thus present an easy target, but flying in open air over a battlefield burning the poor fools below them is another story. Plus he took like 6 spears and still flew off just fine, so it's not like a lucky shot with a spear is going to bring it down in an actual battle.
Also I think in the books, the older they get, the tougher their scales, so arrows and small spears don't do anything to a mature dragon. You have to hit it with something bigger, and that is not easy to do with a flying fire-breathing dragon using medieval level technology. But they can be killed, and many were killed in battles.
Do their fire fuel tanks get bigger? He got off a few good blasts then he laid there like tits on a boar... [Reply]
