What makes you so bad? if you improve your short game your score will improve and youtube vids with some practice can help that, long game lesson could help but sometimes it is better to work with with what you have.

If you started late in your body won;t be able to what is need fora pretty swing, so live with the slice or hook and make it work .
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Mainly inexperience. I'm horrible with the irons, (especially longer iron shots) but in my own defense I don't think I've ever used a set that were actually long enough for me. I constantly top the ball, but I assumed it was because my irons are too short. I've never had any lessons, but a few pretty decent golfers have told me my swing isn't terrible, but I'm awful!
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Clubs vary in length so making contact with short clubs should still be doable although getting sized would help, the W will be shorter than the 3 anyways .

Hitting long irons is hard for most people even most pros have gotten ride of 2 irons and such and are hitting hybrids , if you can find a set with 3/4/5 hybrids . I used to love my 2 iron but Hybrids are just easier and more forgiving.

If you top the ball it is often due to head movement (upwards), just worry about posture during your swing ( don't worry about direction) , you could probably watch a few you tube vids that could explain it better than me. Also video tape your self and draw a line across the top of your head at start and see where your head ends up. There might be an app than can help V1 I think.
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People over the years have tried to complicate the golf wing breaking down into multiple parts, backswing, weight transfer, downswing etc. But if you think of it as one big motion you can removing some of the thinking you are trying to do which usually hurts the process.

When you swing a sledgehammer you don't worry about your weight transfer, leg position etc. the weight of the instrument guides you , let the weight of the club guide you try and feel the weight during the swing, if you break your wrist on the backswing too early for example you lose that feel and let the weight swing it through.

best advice I ever got from a high level pro was " be athletic" I see great athlete in other sports grab a club and there whole body tenses up thus becoming horribly un athletic in the process.

sorry for the rant .
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Not every tip will work for everyone either some people need a more mechanical approach and some people do better with feel.

I am more of a feel type guy , if I start to think to much I am done.
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Just to add on to this: Monticore is right, posture is key and what most people mean when they say "keep your head down" is to actually keep your posture consistent.

When you address the ball there is an angle formed between your hips and your spine. For the sake of ease, we'll say it's 20 degrees.

The golf swing is mainly a rotation around a fixed axis (your spine) wherein you want to keep the angle formed between your hips and spine. Your shoulders rotate 90 degrees to that angle, your hips rotate to that angle.

Watch this video for a visual representation, specifically the 1:20 mark


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Good video

I forgot to mention some side to side motion of the head can be acceptable , up and down is the swing killer.

this is good book to read, I wasn't a fan of the writing style but it does build on that feel thing I mentioned earlier.


Ernest Jones' Swing The Clubhead method
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Lessons can certainly help, but you need to find the right instructor and be able to "connect" with them. Here's an example:

I've been fighting my irons for a looong time. Generally, I just can't even get them airborne. I shank them, hit 'em fat, top them, you name it. I had no confidence whatsoever, especially on par 3 tee boxes.

I took a series of lessons from Chris Cone (David Cone's brother) a couple of years ago. He got me hitting well during the lesson but it didn't translate to the course. I just never really connected with him.

Last year I bought another package of five 1 hour lessons with a different instructor. I could tell immediately I connected with him better. He was able to explain my swing in a way that made sense to me and I could "feel" the changes in my swing. It didn't immediately improve my game on the course, but I kept practicing the things he taught me. Saturday I had probably one of the best rounds I've ever had, especially with regard to my iron play. I hit one really bad iron shot (shanked). The rest were a mix of really good to "almost there". Here are two examples of shots that I never make.

#1 - I've been struggling with my usually reliable driver. I slice my drive on the first hole into the rough and left a pretty long approach of nearly 180 yards. I figured I'd hit the 4i and hopefully get it close. I smoked the damn thing and ended up on the green. Of course, I three putted it. :-)

#2 - A fairly short hole on #13 and I again sliced it badly and was 170+ yards out with the ball sitting down in some thick clover. Pulled the 4i again and put it on the front of the green. I got it down in two for the par this time.
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Up until a year ago I was always hitting my iron by picking the ball. That's great if you do it everytime, but that's impossible, and a shank or a top is what happens when you mishit or don't pick the ball.

Like I said earlier, I play every week with a guy who shots 70 to 73, he hits the ball first and then the divot comes afterwards, just like the pros on TV. I watch him, but what really helped was youtube. Watching videos on how to hit the ball first.

First thing I was doing wrong, was my legs were too far apart, just like I was hitting driver. By bringing legs together shoulder width, that helped. Then I was always hitting the ball when it was off my left foot, my neighbor he hits the ball all the way back in the stance. I moved my aim point to the ball is just left of center.

So now I have a narrower stance, ball just left of center, keeping your eye focused on the ball until you at least you make contact, and swing with less speed. Take it back slower, but come down with thrust aimed right at the ball. My misses went away, I'm hitting the ball solid, and hitting it before the ground. Also by compressing the ball I'm getting more distance. Videos on youtube are a great source of information. Here's one I picked at random about hitting irons and hitting the ball first.



My driving is the best part of my game. I'm only 5' 9" and 150 pounds but I drive 215 to 220 on the fly and about 225 to 230 on roll out. I use a Taylormade R11S white head driver. It's adjustable from 9 degrees to 12, with 10.5 when it comes from the factory. I set mine slightly lower at 10 degrees and still get great height, and face one notch close, that takes away any balloon shots to the right.

For irons I have last year's model Taylormade M-4 irons. I really like them. There is a slot on the face and that actually creates a greater sweet spot, so for example if you hit it slightly out by the toe, you might only lose 5 yards. Also there is a slot on the bottom from 8 iron down, that's called a speed slot. I put Wynn large size grips on the clubs, even though I have small hands, I like gripping a fatter grip.

Here's my driver, like most it was $399 new, I got it when it was one year old on eBay for $125 still in the plastic.



Here's my irons, M-4, they have a little bulk to them, but not as much as some game improvement irons. The better golfer version is M-3. The year before they were M-1 and M-2 and this current year they are M-5 and M-6.



You can see the sweet spot slots on each side of the face, this makes the entire hitting area a sweet spot.



This was the set I traded in for the current M-4's. These are the Taylormade from about 4 years ago, PSI 1's. They had the face and bottom slots and I really liked them a lot, they're graphite shafts. Bought them brand new on eBay from a dealer in LA for $399 with free shipping. I got rid of them because the graphite shafts were not for me. I'm 69, I'll be 70 in July but my swing speed is 95 and I wanted to back to regular steel shafts, so that why I traded.

The Taylormade 3 & 5 Burner Woods in the white covers, I got rid of also. I found I really like the Adams A-4 3 and 4 hybrids. I had them from an old set and kept the hybrids and can hit them much more consistent than the woods off the fairway. I get about 175 yards with the 4 and 190 with the 3, and the woods weren't any better and were harder to hit, and had a tendency to hook when I swing faster. The Callaway Odyssey #7 Putter I also don't use anymore, I have a similar putter, it's a Callaway Odyssey EXO Stroke Lab Seven Mini Putter. It's also a #7 but has two alignment lines, a center line and a back bar between the prongs added. I love this putter, I very seldom 3 putt anymore. It's $250 new, but I got a refurbished model on eBay from the Callaway used shop for $170 and it's looks new.







Those 3 wedges are Titleist Vokey, a 50, 56 and 60. I put the 50 and 60 away, I like them but they require more precise shots. I keep the 56 in the bag for sand traps, it's my go to club for bunkers. Instead of the 50, I use the gap wedge that came with my M-4's and the 60 I hardly used. Instead I have an M-4 4 iron. So even though I have a Adams 4 hybrid, I also carry my Taylormade 4 iron. I can the hit 4 iron good, just not as far as the hybrid. So I have a shot that requires a little more accuracy, I hit the 4 iron instead of the 4 hybrid.
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[QUOTE=DeepPurple;15001780]Up until a year ago I was always hitting my iron by picking the ball. That's great if you do it everytime, but that's impossible, and a shank or a top is what happens when you mishit or don't pick the ball.

Like I said earlier, I play every week with a guy who shots 70 to 73, he hits the ball first and then the divot comes afterwards, just like the pros on TV. I watch him, but what really helped was youtube. Watching videos on how to hit the ball first.

Thanks guys I sincerely appreciate all of your help and input. . My son really enjoys it so I decided to spend a little more and get these Cleveland CBX Launcher GI irons.

https://www.pgatoursuperstore.com/cl...saAqqSEALw_wcB

I was able to get them used on ebay for about 350 shipped. I'm really excited for them to arrive. What are your thoughts on them?
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[QUOTE=crispystl420;15011479] Cleveland makes nice clubs, and that looks really like a good medium level iron set. Not too chunky and not too slim. When I started back in 2009 I had a Cleveland XL Driver, and that was really nice, I should never sold it. Anyway, I like my Taylormade driver, but that Cleveland was just as good.

The only irons that I've looked besides my M-4 are the new Cobra F8 One Length Iron Set. That's right, every iron is the same length as the 7 iron. That kind of makes sense, at least for me because my 7 iron is my favorite club to hit. What I found was the 6, 5 and a 4 if you can find one, are great at that shorter length, but the PW, 9 and 8 are weird, they're way too long. I considered buying a single Cobra F8 of a 6 iron and 5 iron, but since they're so new, they're almost $100 a piece. There's only one pro on tour using the single length irons, that's Bryson DeChambea. When he first came on the tour, he was red hot, but he's kind cooled off latey.


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[QUOTE=crispystl420;15011479] A very large Worldwide engineering firm located in KC used to have a scramble tournament at Milburn CC in KC. I played in it annually for many years. It had plush Zosia fairways that were very intimidating to the sweep the ballplayers. I was taught to swing down at the ball striking it first divot second with irons and loved Zosia. The guys that used the same sweep thru like a driver with their irons really struggled. What was funny was watching them try to adjust mid-round. Never seen so many fat chunks.
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I get an annual lesson from Monte Scheinblum. Dude made a HUGE difference in my game.
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I've never had a lesson, but what helped me a lot was my neighbor took out his phone and shot a quick video of me hitting the ball off the fairway to the green. I never realized that my stance was the same width as when i'm hitting the driver. As soon as I narrowed my feet together, I got a lot more consistent hits with the irons.
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Who you guys got in the RBC? Was hoping my guy DeCheambeau could get it done but looks like a no name will probably win.

Where are Tiger and Phil the last couple of weeks?
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