What we know about this team is that it typically likes to fill its roster out as much as possible in free agency and then spend its highest picks on potential replacements for job openings a year down the road, and that includes Veach.
I doubt I even need to run down the list but:
2020: CEH --> Williams
2019: Hardman --> Hill/Watkins
2018: Speaks --> Ford/Houston
2017: Mahomes --> Smith
Fisher will be on the last year of his contract, and most of us suspect Schwartz retiring.
The Chiefs obviously like Niang but going OT 1st gives them the options:
Niang vs. the rookie for starting RT
if the rookie wins, Niang can slide into guard or hold the swing tackle position
if Niang wins, the rookie can slide into guard or hold the swing tackle position
the Chiefs love Fisher but if both Niang and the rookie excel, maybe they cut bait
if only one of them excel, the Chiefs can extend Fisher
It just seems like the kind of move that gives them the flexibility in future decisions that they like to have.
I'd rather they go DE, even if it means trading up for one. But based on what we know, OT could ostensibly solve up to two different OL spots in 2021 and gives them all kinds of options in 2022 based on how 2021 goes. [Reply]
Just putting on weight really doesn't make that much of a difference, and can actually be a major hindrance in some cases.
What the holy fucking fuck? Do you suppose it sounds like cream of chicken soup when he pulls his helmet off?
*THHHHHHOCK*
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
Because Mahomes is fucking amazing.
It'd still be nice to be able to run the ball some and not require Mahomes to be superman all the time.
To be fair, we did fist Buffalo with the run in the regular season. The one aspect that hasn't happened a ton (that I thought would) is CEH catches in the flat ala Charles under Reid. In most years, that's Reid's run game. I think the RPO takes some of those possessions, but yeah, not relying on Mahomes magic would be nice. [Reply]
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
Back to the OP, I'm not opposed to taking an OT at #32.
IF it's the right guy. Like I said, I took Eichenberg in my latest mock and I think it gives the line some versatility because he could realistically play RT day 1 and possibly LT if needed.
I just can't see taking a project or a guy that's more likely to play guard in the first round. If you're going to take an offensive lineman that high, he almost HAS to be an offensive tackle because that's where we have the biggest need.
This. You also don't take a lineman just to take a lineman. It has to be a guy they legitimately like. It's why Bench/Read are so good at the draft. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
Because Mahomes is fucking amazing.
It'd still be nice to be able to run the ball some and not require Mahomes to be superman all the time.
Mahomes is "superman" because that's the way he plays football.
Which again, is exactly why the Chiefs shouldn't just draft offensive linemen thinking that they will be an "upgrade" over the current players.
He's not a 3, 5 or 7 step passer. He's a guy that's all over the place so drafting offensive linemen high isn't going to make much of a difference because of his style of play.
The Chiefs have won 38 of their last 48 regular season games with a pieced together offensive line, which makes it ridiculous to waste valuable resources on a player that won't provide much of an upgrade, if at all. [Reply]
Could Veach zig when everyone expects him to zag? What about CB in the first? Breeland could be gone. Baker is coming off of an injury. Keyes is an unknown. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud:
Schwartz hasn't been "excellent" since 2016. He's been good and well above average at times, but he's also had his shit pushed in by Shaq Barrett and Von Miller, among others.
The bottom line is that Andy has specific traits that he looks for in an offensive lineman and in most cases, has either had those guys sit for a year (LDT, Allegretti) or forced them to play immediately with middling-to-poor results (Fisher at RT and Fulton at Right Guard).
Wylie's been fine. He started on the 12-4 2018 team, the 12-4 2019 and every game this 14-2 season. It's just not worth the time, money and draft resources to bring in other players that will bring similar or lessor results.
Wylie will be back and he’ll likely start somewhere. I get that he’s not been a bad mark against us overall but I’d like to see us look at drafting a couple of IOL (G and C) in the middle to late part of the draft. We just always seem to have injuries on the OL and I’d like to stock the depth up which I’m sure Veach will do.
I’m pro receiver with the first pick, but this year is filled with a lot of talented tackles. That’s the beauty of it to me. WR and OT will have options for them if they choose to pursue them. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud:
Mahomes is "superman" because that's the way he plays football.
Which again, is exactly why the Chiefs shouldn't just draft offensive linemen thinking that they will be an "upgrade" over the current players.
He's not a 3, 5 or 7 step passer. He's a guy that's all over the place so drafting offensive linemen high isn't going to make much of a difference because of his style of play.
The Chiefs have won 38 of their last 48 regular season games with a pieced together offensive line, which makes it ridiculous to waste valuable resources on a player that won't provide much of an upgrade, if at all.
There's a lot of times when the defense is on him immediately. Yeah, he can move around and improvise, but that's not how it was supposed to go. And sooner or later it's going to get him killed.
I get that The Chiefs had a TON of injuries this year, and nobody could've planned for that.
Being able to run the ball behind someone besides Allegretti would be cool. If you notice, most of our success this season was behind him and Fisher. And the first Bills game, behind Kilgore too.
I'm not saying we need to spend all #1's and a ton of money and have the Roaf-era Chiefs line or anything, but Offensive Tackles usually come pretty early in the draft. Yeah, not always, but usually.
And whether it's promoting from the practice squad with guys like Durant and getting Niang in, or signing a couple of cheap vets, we could definitely be better up front.
IF we don't win on Sunday, wouldn't you bet that the reason would be offensive line issues? I mean that would be my assumption.
To me, that indicates that the line needs attention this offseason. Fisher and Schwartz went from a big strength to big holes in their injured wake.
In Veach and Reid I trust. If they think Rankin can play LT all season, I'm game to see it. [Reply]
I, for one, am not game to see Rankin at LT for more than a game or two if absolutely needed. Coaching or no coaching in Texas, he was beyond atrocious.
I'd put alot more stock into the prospect of Niang sliding there for a season than Rankin taking the spot. [Reply]
Originally Posted by kccrow:
I, for one, am not game to see Rankin at LT for more than a game or two if absolutely needed. Coaching or no coaching in Texas, he was beyond atrocious.
For the record, you've just described nearly everyone that's played for the Texans in the past 3 to 5 years.
If he was awful, the Chiefs would have cut him by now. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud:
For the record, you've just described nearly everyone that's played for the Texans in the past 3 to 5 years.
If he was awful, the Chiefs would have cut him by now.
I remember a certain shitty offensive lineman they actually re-signed instead of moving on from, and he remained shitty. I trust a lot in Veach, no doubt, but a spade is a spade. Cam Erving sucked. With that, I can't 100% agree they would have just cut him by now.
Martinas Rankin doesn't suck quite as bad as Erving but I wouldn't trust having Mahomes play behind him for 16 games at LT nor anywhere near it. I did rather like him at LG though in his limited action. If guard is his spot, it's his spot. No sense painting spots on a pig and calling it a cow, it's still a pig. [Reply]
Originally Posted by kccrow:
Martinas Rankin doesn't suck quite as bad as Erving but I wouldn't trust having Mahomes play behind him for 16 games at LT nor anywhere near it. I did rather like him at LG though in his limited action. If guard is his spot, it's his spot. No sense painting spots on a pig and calling it a cow, it's still a pig.
Did you watch the Week 17 games against the Chargers? He had zero penalties and one sack given up while playing next to guys that were 3rd and 4th string.
Andy likes all of his offensive lineman to play multiple spots, which he reiterated earlier this week on the NFL Network. That's also why so many of these guys can just "Plug & Play" when injuries occur, so while Rankin might be better at Left Guard than Left Tackle, he's been taught to play all positions across the line.
And I realize that Cam Erving is pretty much hated on CP, the Chiefs didn't miss a beat in terms of W/L when he was forced into that spot. They went 5-3 with Erving as a starter but also lost two games they had no business losing in the Colts and Texans games.
I realize that many people want the best and most talented offensive line in the league for the Chiefs but not only will that never happen with Reid and Mahomes, it's also a waste of valuable resources to constantly pick offensive linemen high in the draft, which is why outside of two players, the Chiefs have relied on UDFA's, Free Agents and late round picks. [Reply]
Using W/L as a basis for player evaluation doesn't provide us with much. We both know it's not a sustainable formula to trot out a subpar player week after week at tackle just because you're winning. I'd rather not have my star QB hit play after play and running for his life, which is what he's done a lot more of with lesser talented players at the position. He's done enough of it with bad guards, much less bad tackles. You look at Rankin, he still gave up a sack. He gave up some pressure. Is he good enough there to get you through a game or two? Yes. Is he good enough there to get you through a season? Nothing I've seen indicates it's a good idea. Equally, Remmers has never shown to be good enough to get you through a season there.
I don't advocate using a bunch of 1st round picks on the offensive line. I expect to use one on a LT because that's where you get a good one. You probably need a day 2 pick at RT, which the Chiefs spent last year on Niang. And, I absolutely think you need good tackles in the NFL. The rest of the line can be filled in with mid and late round picks.
What does this team need so badly instead of a tackle to protect Mahomes? I don't see a more important use of a draft resource. We can make the same argument that Reid has gotten by just fine with day 2 and 3 receivers and Spags has gotten by with garbage heap defensive ends, which are the other positions everyone is up in arms over. Everyone wants upgrades at those positions. The difference being there is that you're more likely to snag value at those positions beyond round 1 than you are at LT. [Reply]
The way I look at it...Chiefs averaged like 6 ppg more with Watkins in the line-up.
THAT is tangible real-world results...having the #1 rated OT in the NFL isn't going to provide an improvement that dramatic...but you still need one to be serviceable.
With a QB on the level of Mahomes...throw some of your high draft capital at quality pass catchers. Pick up middle tier o-lineman and vets. Veach just landed the #1 rated rookie CB in the 4th...
I think WR is the one area where natural talent is more critical..and also easily apparent.
Most of the top WRs in the NFL are former 1st/2nd rounders....the odds of unearthing a late round gem are pretty low. There are Chris Conely/DRob/Albert Wilson level players every year in the mid rounds..
Chiefs need to draft a stud #2...but you have to invest a higher pick to land one. [Reply]