Put Pete in the hall
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And Bonds, and Clemens
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Yes and yes!
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I don’t know where I stand on that because every damn person was doing it and the mlb is complicit. It’s a gray area. Betting on your own team is a clear ban hammer though.
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Pete doesn’t belong in the hall. He broke the cardinal rule and I’m ok with that being unforgivable.

If shohei broke those same rules then same rules apply. But I doubt he did.
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Fuck that high horse bullshit. He was the greatest hitter of his day, maybe all time.
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If you want to preserve the integrity of the game you can’t have players or coaches grooving games and screwing over fans and competitive balance to make a quick buck. You have to set an example and now it’s more important than ever.

It isn’t moral high horse. There is a lot of forgiveness for scumbags, criminals and even cheaters. But betting on your team is a mortal sin and it should be.
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Patriots were caught cheating multiple times and Brady and Belichick are going into the Hall. Manning had illegal hgh delivered under his wife's name. Why is baseball so upitty about keeping legends out of the Hall?
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I agree there are lots of players in baseball who are blackballed for the wrong reason. Curt schilling is an obvious one. But gambling on your own team is a whole different animal.
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Pete Rose was an overrated compiler who lived on hollow singles and refused to quite when he should've because he was a shameless stat-chaser who prioritized his numbers over his team's record.

His last 1,500 hits came when he was an average, at best, big league hitter. And for his last 1,000 of those he was fairly well worthless. And since he couldn't play defense and he played in the National League, they had to plug him in at 1b where dragging along a weak hitter is doubly damaging.

"Hey Mike Schmidt - we know you guys missed the playoffs by 2 games in '82 and the Cardinals ended up winning in your place while Pete Rose gave you absolutely fuck-all at 1b - but hey, he hit 150 singles that year, man!"

Pete Rose wasn't the greatest anything of his day, certainly not of all time.

He might be - might be - one of the 25 best hitters of all time. But he wasn't even the best hitter on his own team during his day. That was Mike Schmidt. He's not the greatest switch hitter of all time - that's Mickey Mantle and/or Chipper Jones. He's not the greatest contact hitter of all time - that's Tony Gwynn.

He's just a guy that put up numbers because he refused to quit and his team refused to fire him.
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You shut your whore mouth DJ! Pete Rose is my baseball Jesus.
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Well he certainly has the martyr half of it down pat...
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Some valid points here that I had never really considered (mainly because I despised the teams he played for), but you do seem focused on over-the-hill Rose while ignoring young Rose. It's hard to ignore his contributions to the Reds back in the day. And as the fat guy from Moneyball would point out, he did get on base.

It is hard to feel sorry for him, though. Rose's biggest enemy has always been Rose.
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I put Pete Rose on the same level as Tony Gwynn. Both were slap hitters with no power and if they played today they'd be completely out of there element.
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No question - very good player in his younger years.

But take away the gaudy hit totals through being a compiler and was he noticeably better than Craig Biggio?

I'm not saying he's not a HoF caliber guy. He was for the first 2/3 of his career. But his legendary status is built on numbers he never should've stuck around to build up.

It's similar to Ripken in that regard. Cal was not a good player for the latter half of his career. He probably should've been taking days off. But in the ends a record meant more to him than the teams record. And it paid off for him - we remember him as a legend because of a record he never should've broken in the first place.
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