Sources: The #Chiefs are closing in on signing star TE Travis Kelce to a long-term extension – at least 5 years – that keeps him in a KC uniform catching passes from Patrick Mahomes for the foreseeable future. Keeping their best players...
Very quietly, KC and the agents for Travis Kelce have been working on an extension to pay him according to his production. This should be done in the next day or so. The #Chiefs continue to do work. https://t.co/maqWkpFQD3
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
A lot of truth to this.
I don't understand why the TE market remains as depressed as it is. Kelce and Kittle won't make Watkins money and both of those guys are orders of magnitude more critical to their teams than Watkins is.
At a point, DT and DE are also weirdly divergent in that way. Why is a guy like Garrett, who I REALLY like, more valuable than Aaron Donald or even Chris Jones? Both of those guys are every bit as disruptive, if not moreso.
And it isn't like G or RB where they're cheaper because they're more fungible. There aren't a slew of 6'6'' dudes w/ track speed you can play in-line or out wide like Kelce or Kittle. Those guys aren't readily replaceable. Likewise with Donald and Jones - these first step freaks that weigh 300 lbs don't grow on trees.
The market for some positions just doesn't make a damn bit of sense.
I think you just said it right here.
The average TE is not that valuable to most teams. The average TE just doesn't make that big an impact for their respective teams. TEs like Kittle and Kelce are the outliers, in terms of performance. As you say, there just aren't that many guys out there that are 6' 5" plus, run like deer, are experts at defeating coverage, and can still block adequately. And Kelce has an extra skill that Kittle doesn't have yet, which is the ability to consistently and efficiently ad lib when the play breaks down and give his QB a great target at exactly the right time. Kittle will probably get there, but he's not there yet.
But I digress. My point is, I think you already hit on why TEs don't get paid like WRs. It's because there isn't "a slew of 6'6'' dudes w/ track speed you can play in-line or out wide . . ." It'll probably take some time before the league's GMs make that adjustment.
Originally Posted by BWillie:
Sure hope he's good when he's 34 and 35 years old..
The structure makes it so it wouldn't kills us if he declines. It's basically $12.5 million per year for four years (from today) and then two one-year options after that.
Originally Posted by MAHOMO 4 LIFE!:
Ward and Mathieu need to be next
You can't just pay everyone. At some point you gotta let guys go.
I'm happy Mahomes (duh), Reek and Kelce are done. But most of the other guys are expendable. I wouldn't have paid Chris Jones, but it doesn't appear to be an error to do it.
Originally Posted by Megatron96:
I think you just said it right here.
The average TE is not that valuable to most teams. The average TE just doesn't make that big an impact for their respective teams. TEs like Kittle and Kelce are the outliers, in terms of performance. As you say, there just aren't that many guys out there that are 6' 5" plus, run like deer, are experts at defeating coverage, and can still block adequately. And Kelce has an extra skill that Kittle doesn't have yet, which is the ability to consistently and efficiently ad lib when the play breaks down and give his QB a great target at exactly the right time. Kittle will probably get there, but he's not there yet.
But I digress. My point is, I think you already hit on why TEs don't get paid like WRs. It's because there isn't "a slew of 6'6'' dudes w/ track speed you can play in-line or out wide . . ." It'll probably take some time before the league's GMs make that adjustment.
But the average WR is pretty damn replaceable as well.
Demarcus Robinson is an 'average' WR in this league and they're a dime a dozen. Taco Charlton is an average DE and they can always be found. Yet the top of the markets for those guys are still extremely high because the top of the market is, and should be, a world apart.
If anything, the dearth of TE depth should make the top of the market HIGHER for guys like Kelce.
I just wonder if part of it is lack of creativity by coaches - some just don't have a feel for how they can make one of them super-dangerous. Then again, history is littered with pretty basic coaches making superstars out of TEs. Tony G and Shannon Sharpe were out there wrecking shit with Gunther Cunningham and Wade Phillips as HCs. It's not actually all that difficult to figure out how to use a big damn dude that runs really fast.
Maybe it gets back to what I realized when I started watching those NFL films videos zeroing in on Kelce and the Aaron Hernandez documentary - these !@#$ers get BLASTED. Tight ends are routinely taking shots that are harder than anyone else in the league. It's amazing how hard they get hit.
I wonder if NFL teams in general are just too scared to put big money into a position where these guys are just being abused on a snap to snap basis.
Originally Posted by BWillie:
You can't just pay everyone. At some point you gotta let guys go.
I'm happy Mahomes (duh), Reek and Kelce are done. But most of the other guys are expendable. I wouldn't have paid Chris Jones, but it doesn't appear to be an error to do it.
That’s why Veach is running the show and not one of CP’s biggest morons.
I saw both sides. I was never really sure where I fell - depended on the day, really.
Until Bosa and Garrett signed.
Once that happened and the market was 'set' for dominant DL at a level that was about 20% higher than we were paying Jones, it seemed pretty apparent that paying Jones was the way to go.
I still wonder if there was a path to getting both of Indy's 2nd rounders for him and what we could've done with that cap space and draft capital. But I think it's a pretty hard argument to make that the Jones contract should be criticized. Maybe the opportunity cost will prove too high in the coming years, but the K itself is pretty easy to defend when compared to his contemporaries.
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
I saw both sides. I was never really sure where I fell - depended on the day, really.
Until Bosa and Garrett signed.
Once that happened and the market was 'set' for dominant DL at a level that was about 20% higher than we were paying Jones, it seemed pretty apparent that paying Jones was the way to go.
I still wonder if there was a path to getting both of Indy's 2nd rounders for him and what we could've done with that cap space and draft capital. But I think it's a pretty hard argument to make that the Jones contract should be criticized. Maybe the opportunity cost will prove too high in the coming years, but the K itself is pretty easy to defend when compared to his contemporaries.
Oh I understood both sides of it as well. I would’ve been good with a big trade if they couldn’t get something done.
But the fact that he’s saying this after the fact with hindsight makes his take really bad.
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
But the average WR is pretty damn replaceable as well.
Demarcus Robinson is an 'average' WR in this league and they're a dime a dozen. Taco Charlton is an average DE and they can always be found. Yet the top of the markets for those guys are still extremely high because the top of the market is, and should be, a world apart.
If anything, the dearth of TE depth should make the top of the market HIGHER for guys like Kelce.
I just wonder if part of it is lack of creativity by coaches - some just don't have a feel for how they can make one of them super-dangerous. Then again, history is littered with pretty basic coaches making superstars out of TEs. Tony G and Shannon Sharpe were out there wrecking shit with Gunther Cunningham and Wade Phillips as HCs. It's not actually all that difficult to figure out how to use a big damn dude that runs really fast.
Maybe it gets back to what I realized when I started watching those NFL films videos zeroing in on Kelce and the Aaron Hernandez documentary - these !@#$ers get BLASTED. Tight ends are routinely taking shots that are harder than anyone else in the league. It's amazing how hard they get hit.
I wonder if NFL teams in general are just too scared to put big money into a position where these guys are just being abused on a snap to snap basis.
But, and I don't know this for sure because I haven't looked any of it up yet, if we looked at the top 15 WRs and their production vs. the top 15 TEs production, excluding the two top performers of each group, I'm guessing right now that the WRs group would post significantly higher numbers. just picked "top-15" out of a hat; could've picked top-10 or 12 or whatever.
My point being, that with WRs we probably see a larger group of high-impact players than with TEs. With TEs, it's basically Kelce and Kittle and then a large drop in stats, whereas with WRs there's probably a group of, I don't know, 10-15 WRs that all perform at a pretty high level. And it's been that way for decades.
Also, and this is mostly hearsay because I literally heard it during one of the playoff games back in January, historically TEs aren't big factors in the playoffs/Super Bowl. One of the commentators said it, and I can't even remember which one, but I remember it because he even singled out TG, saying he didn't do much in the playoffs during his career. It's possible that the NFL believes this holistically.
