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Nzoner's Game Room>So it’s really just the Steelers [or Bills] right?
RunKC 09:41 PM 09-28-2020
I mean goddamn this conference seems wrapped up doesn’t it? Not trying to jinx us but it really seems like injuries are our biggest opponent at this point.

The Ravens are fucking frauds. They’re a warm up for us. We literally made these guys look like the JV squad the last 2 meetings.

And sure the Bills and Titans may make us work for the win, but in all honesty we have to play pretty goddamn shitty to lose to those guys.

In order to have any shot at beating us you need 3 things:

1. Elite pass rush
2. Top 10 QB capable of making critical plays
3. Overall talented roster

Steelers are the only team in the AFC that has those 3 things, and even them it’s not like they’re some serious threat like the Patriots a couple years back, but they seem like the best of the rest.

I think at this point it would be disappointing for this team to not get to the SB 3 straight times.

We’re just that good, and we keep drafting well and get better and better.
[Reply]
diqlix 02:31 PM 12-16-2020
Originally Posted by Megatron96:
Jarvis is not a top-5 WR. He doesn't even break into the top-15 in any major receiving category this season. Diggs is top-5 in most WR categories. They aren't even close to being on the same level.

And who's this top-15 guy? Because I can't find him either.
No I was referring to Jarvis as the top 15. Maybe top 20.

OBJ was top 5 when he came to Cleveland.

He no longer is, but he was.
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diqlix 02:33 PM 12-16-2020
Originally Posted by MahomesMagic:
I think Kurt Warner knows more than PFF which doesn't evaluate QB play well.

The concept of “ceiling” is different to Warner than it is to you or I. He doesn’t view “ceiling” through the lens of a QB’s physical ability. He doesn’t see a rocket arm or breakneck speed or did-he-just-do-that!? improvisation and project greatness.

No, to Warner, ceiling is all mental. All how a quarterback processes the game.

After all, that’s how a Barnstormin’ cast-off essentially changes offensive football.

Warner studies Allen. Warner has concerns.

Over the summer, he re-watched every snap of the Bills’ playoff loss to the Texans and… yikes. It was bad. Allen missed “lay-up” after “lay-up.” His unusual frame stood out then. Warner is a firm believer that it’s extremely difficult for lanky, 6-foot-5 quarterbacks to ever become rhythmic passers. Peyton Manning was tall, sure, but “still compact,” Warner notes. In Allen, he sees “long levers” and Warner believes it’s extremely difficult for any quarterback with such levers to condense everything into a concise throwing motion that lasts.

And even as Allen then torched the league with an MVP-caliber September, even as millions of us believed we were witnessing a young QB turning the corner and anyone who ever uttered a bad word about Allen was told to repent for their sins, Warner saw something else. Warner saw a quarterback making (very) simple throws to (very) fast receivers. A quarterback who, frankly, didn’t need to use his brain much. As defenses started getting more exotic in coverage with their zones, Allen regressed. Allen lacked a counterpunch. Hence, the JV-level picks vs. the Titans and the near picks vs. the NFL’s worst team and the fumbles (he’s up to 28 in 38 starts). After that 4-0 start, Buffalo lost to two AFC powers and wobbled to wins over two AFC lightweights with Allen completing 62.7 percent of his passes for 211.5 yards per game, four scores, four picks and a 79.2 passer rating.


“When you get man to man, you don’t have to process the information,” Warner says. “It’s just ‘Pick a match-up that you like, and go.’ And, so, it’s a great thing for young guys because it comes down to the physicality more than it comes down to the mental side of it. When you add the mental side to it — with a guy who’s still learning how to play the position like Josh and still learning how to process and, at times, gets antsy in the pocket — all this stuff starts to stack on top of each other. And that is when you have your inefficiencies.

One high-ranking AFC exec vacillates between two comps. First, he calls Allen “a more exciting Kirk Cousins” because, to him, Allen is good enough to get the Bills to the playoffs but bad enough to keep them from going too far. He points out that defenses know they simply have to confuse him, so there’s also “a Daunte Culpepper feel” here. He believes that, like Culpepper, defenses will shut Allen down for good in one or two years.

“That, to me, becomes the ultimate question with this new-era of quarterback. How long can they sustain what they’re doing to have their statistical success before it’s going to have to adjust? And if they do or if they don’t will determine how long they play in this game and at that level.”

Thus, it’s pretty simple for the Bills. Until Allen develops that counter, they are a 10-6, 11-5 team that will run into the buzz saw that is Mahomes.

https://www.golongtd.com/p/part-ii-t...-on-josh-allen
Weird.

Not a single quote from Warner about Josh not moving past his first read.

You're spinning. Hard.

This is sad.
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diqlix 02:34 PM 12-16-2020
Originally Posted by Best22:
I think Allen is better than Mayfield

And I think Watson is better than Allen. Deshaun Watson seems to be improving every year
I'm a big Watson fan.

Underrated, in my opinion.
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MahomesMagic 02:36 PM 12-16-2020
Originally Posted by daquix:
Weird.

Not a single quote from Warner about Josh not moving past his first read.

You're spinning. Hard.

This is sad.

You are sad. Care to explain Josh Allen's performance against Kansas City? Why was he struggling at playing QB?

I can't wait for this one.
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diqlix 02:37 PM 12-16-2020
Originally Posted by MahomesMagic:
You are sad. Care to explain Josh Allen's performance against Kansas City? Why was he struggling at playing QB?

I can't wait for this one.
Easy.

He played like crap.

Is your next question more difficult?
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Megatron96 02:40 PM 12-16-2020
Originally Posted by daquix:
No I was referring to Jarvis as the top 15. Maybe top 20.

OBJ was top 5 when he came to Cleveland.

He no longer is, but he was.
OBJ was. For the last two seasons he hasn't been even close to what he was. He can't get open/separation for whatever reason, and he hasn't helped Baker at all, with the exception of a handful of catches sprinkled between last season and this one.

As far as this season is concerned, statistically OBJ is a far lesser WR than Jarvis, and as I said, Jarvis isn't listed in the top 15 in any significant WR categories. He's 22nd in tgts, I think. That's as high as he goes. In every other category, Jarvis is listed below 25th or lower than 50th.
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diqlix 02:44 PM 12-16-2020
Originally Posted by Megatron96:
OBJ was. For the last two seasons he hasn't been even close to what he was. He can't get open/separation for whatever reason, and he hasn't helped Baker at all, with the exception of a handful of catches sprinkled between last season and this one.

As far as this season is concerned, statistically OBJ is a far lesser WR than Jarvis, and as I said, Jarvis isn't listed in the top 15 in any significant WR categories. He's 22nd in tgts, I think. That's as high as he goes. In every other category, Jarvis is listed below 25th or lower than 50th.
Could be the QB...
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Megatron96 03:04 PM 12-16-2020
Originally Posted by daquix:
Could be the QB...
Nope. Watch the films. OBJ is just not getting open. Baker was constantly throwing into very tight coverage trying to get balls to OBJ, because either that was the timing of the play or he was trying to give OBJ a chance to make a play, excluding snaps where Baker obviously didn't see OBJ or pressure destroyed the timing. But a WR of OBJ's 'caliber' should've been able to make himself more available a lot more often, on time.

Try watching the films. Or if you have trouble understanding them, try one of the many good YT NFL analysts, like Krueger or Kohlmann, the QB School, etc. They all provide solid insight on design, execution, QB play, and receivers.

That way you can stop trotting out those basically meaningless total season stats all the time.
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diqlix 03:09 PM 12-16-2020
Originally Posted by Megatron96:
Nope. Watch the films. OBJ is just not getting open. Baker was constantly throwing into very tight coverage trying to get balls to OBJ, because either that was the timing of the play or he was trying to give OBJ a chance to make a play, excluding snaps where Baker obviously didn't see OBJ or pressure destroyed the timing. But a WR of OBJ's 'caliber' should've been able to make himself more available a lot more often, on time.

Try watching the films. Or if you have trouble understanding them, try one of the many good YT NFL analysts, like Krueger or Kohlmann, the QB School, etc. They all provide solid insight on design, execution, QB play, and receivers.

That way you can stop trotting out those basically meaningless total season stats all the time.
I admittedly don't watch Browns game.

I just find it odd that suddenly OBJ started sucking once Baker became his QB.

That combined with all of my Brown fans friends wanting him cut or traded before the season all lead me to the same conclusion.

In general, fan don't watch enough games of OTHER teams QB's to really judge them.
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ModSocks 03:11 PM 12-16-2020
Originally Posted by MahomesMagic:
You are sad. Care to explain Josh Allen's performance against Kansas City? Why was he struggling at playing QB?

I can't wait for this one.
Defenses have adjusted in 2020, copy cat league and all that. QB's like Allen were given the Mahomes treatment (stop blitzing, don't send more than 3-4 and flood the zones with your secondary).

It's why Allen started hot, cooled off, and now the Bills are back to winning again. The Bills, like the Chiefs, were forced to develop a short pass/run game.

Same thing happened with Mahomes and the Chiefs, but the Chiefs never lost because of it like the Bills did.

Think about that. Allen was having so much early success that they had to start game planning for him as if he were Mahomes.

How defenses approach you is evidence of what the league thinks of your play.

Guys like Mahomes and Allen don't get these easy looks like these rookies get, or guys like Lamar Jackson and Baker Mayfield.

So when people say, "Oh waht happened to Josh Allen", nothing happened to Josh Allen. Defenses adjusted to him, and now the Bills (like the Chiefs) have adjusted back.
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Megatron96 03:14 PM 12-16-2020
Originally Posted by daquix:
I admittedly don't watch Browns game.

I just find it odd that suddenly OBJ started sucking once Baker became his QB.

That combined with all of my Brown fans friends wanting him cut or traded before the season all lead me to the same conclusion.

In general, fan don't watch enough games of OTHER teams QB's to really judge them.
He was sucking his last season or so with the Giants. And Eli was forcing him the ball there as well.

I don't watch him enough, especially the last two seasons, to know or have a good idea what his problem is, but it's very apparent that he's not getting any separation most of the time when he's on the field. But Baker's been force-feeding him the ball, and it still isn't making a difference.

Maybe OBJ is done from a physical standpoint, I don't know.
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carcosa 03:14 PM 12-16-2020
Originally Posted by daquix:
Actually, I've been a member here for nearly 10 years.

(thats longer than you)

I don't thump my chest. That's not my style.

Ive always had an affinity to Chiefs fans.

Before they became arrogant anyway.
I thought I told you to chug a toilet bitch!!!!
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ModSocks 03:15 PM 12-16-2020
Watching that Browns/Ravens game was a joke.

All i could think was, "Man Mahomes NEVER gets defensive looks like that".

Both teams loaded the box to stop the run, gave the QB's easy reads in man coverage.

A 300 yard passing day from Mayfield is NOTHING like a 300 yard passing day for Mahomes. The degree of difficulty for one guy vs the other are miles apart.

Allen has worked himself into that conversation where defenses aren't going to give him easy looks like they would a Lamar Jackson or Baker Mayfield or Ryan Tannehill. In THEIR situations, defenses load the box and dare you to make the throw on those easy reads.

Apples to Oranges.
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diqlix 03:17 PM 12-16-2020

Baker Mayfield has done the impossible.

He turned OBJ from one of the NFL’s best receivers, to one or the NFL’s best defensive backs.
pic.twitter.com/T5tzGvlu90

— Emmanuel Acho (@EmmanuelAcho) September 27, 2020


Baker just missed a wide open obj... pic.twitter.com/GCPj4prZiK

— Damon J. Kecman (@DownWithDamon) December 15, 2019



#Browns QB Baker Mayfield now has 17 INTs to only 15 TDs this season.

Threw this one to Patrick Peterson, overthrow, tried to get it to OBJ. pic.twitter.com/a6GA4otRSG

— Dov Kleiman (@NFL_DovKleiman) December 15, 2019


I’m so mad at Baker Mayfield and the Browns for robbing us of OBJ’s ability all year!! pic.twitter.com/VRa95UGvAF

— Emmanuel Acho (@EmmanuelAcho) December 29, 2019

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ModSocks 03:20 PM 12-16-2020
So....check this out...Watkins is gone after this year most likely....

Bring in OBJ?

Mahomes to OBJ would be epic AF.
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