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Nzoner's Game Room>***NON-POLITICAL COVID-19 Discussion Thread***
JakeF 10:28 PM 02-26-2020
A couple of reminders...

Originally Posted by Bwana:
Once again, don't come in this thread with some kind of political agenda, or you will be shown the door. If you want to go that route, there is a thread about this in DC.
Originally Posted by Dartgod:
People, there is a lot of good information in this thread, let's try to keep the petty bickering to a minimum.

We all have varying opinions about the impact of this, the numbers, etc. We will all never agree with each other. But we can all keep it civil.

Thanks!

Click here for the original OP:

Spoiler!

[Reply]
NotDonger 09:11 AM 07-20-2021
Originally Posted by carlos3652:
Did not realized that we only count Hospitalizations and Death as people having Covid.
As I said, the CDC was reporting every confirmed breakthrough case, but stopped back at the end of April. At that time, the number was well below 1%

Now, they are focusing on just breakthrough hospitalizations and deaths.
[Reply]
NotDonger 09:13 AM 07-20-2021
Originally Posted by carlos3652:
Did not realized that we only count Hospitalizations and Death as people having Covid and the data that I presented, shows that there are no severe covid cases among the vaxxed and that is in line with your data.
That's not accurate, either. There are severe breakthrough cases and there are deaths, just not very many compared to unvaccinated.
[Reply]
carlos3652 09:14 AM 07-20-2021
Originally Posted by NotDonger:
As I said, the CDC was reporting every confirmed breakthrough case, but stopped back at the end of April. At that time, the number was well below 1%

Now, they are focusing on just breakthrough hospitalizations and deaths.
Again, you are not reading. If 90% of people vaxxed dont have symptoms, there will be no testing and no cases. if 99.5% of vaxxed dont get severe symptoms, you wont have many hospitalizations and death. That doesnt mean that those people dont have covid.
[Reply]
NotDonger 09:18 AM 07-20-2021
Originally Posted by carlos3652:
Again, you are not reading. If 90% of people vaxxed dont have symptoms, there will be no testing and no cases. if 99.5% of vaxxed dont get severe symptoms, you wont have many hospitalizations and death. That doesnt mean that those people dont have covid.
What is your source for the 90% claim, please? The last I saw, it was more in the 27% range.

And yes, I agree and agreed that it's an undercount, but not to the point of "everyone including the vaccinated" will get COVID-19. That makes no sense based on the known efficacy data.
[Reply]
O.city 09:21 AM 07-20-2021

People are looking at the percent of vaccinated hospitalizations and getting alarmed. But by itself, this number can't tell you much about how the vaccines are working, as it's highly dependent on the rate of vaccination in a community. Here's some maths to show what I mean���� pic.twitter.com/MmfiL7H1lw

— Kristen Panthagani, PhD (@kmpanthagani) July 20, 2021

[Reply]
carlos3652 10:00 AM 07-20-2021
Originally Posted by NotDonger:
What is your source for the 90% claim, please? The last I saw, it was more in the 27% range.

And yes, I agree and agreed that it's an undercount, but not to the point of "everyone including the vaccinated" will get COVID-19. That makes no sense based on the known efficacy data.
Here is an early trial showing 60% for vaxxed and 40% for unvaxxed asymptomatic.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2779854

Here is a later one showing 80% asymptomatic.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2781727

(Small sample sizes)

the image I attached showed 80% asymptomic and 90% < mild symptoms for vaxxed.
[Reply]
O.city 11:09 AM 07-20-2021

An honest & nuanced take on the Israeli vaccine data -

In summary - understanding how to interpret efficacy has become more complex as we vaccinate more people.

"there is little to no compelling evidence of widespread vaccine failure in israel"https://t.co/8fgSpvWjPw

— NYC Angry Mom (@angrybklynmom) July 20, 2021

[Reply]
MahomesMagic 11:28 AM 07-20-2021
Originally Posted by O.city:
Twitter deleted him.

This was a good point...

testing for covid, especially by high Ct PCR, is inherently flawed and prone to massive overstatement of clinical disease. the test is too sensitive and can easily detect non-clinical trace virus and viral remains that are neither infective nor contagious.


And this was a nice exchange in the comments section:

TNK55 min ago
Fair analysis. People tend to miss that the first rule is to make sure your compared populations are actually comparable. This also BTW strongly contradicts the claims, unsupported by any data but just by media trumpeting of Fauci and CDC, that 99.xx% of deaths are in the unvaccinated. Highly implausible.

2Reply
author
el gato malo48 min ago
very much agree. there is no way the US data is diverging that much from israeli and UK.

discussed here.
[Reply]
O.city 11:40 AM 07-20-2021
So you agree the vaccines aren't failing in Israel (or really anywhere) as he says?
[Reply]
Discuss Thrower 11:56 AM 07-20-2021
Originally Posted by O.city:
So you agree the vaccines aren't failing in Israel (or really anywhere) as he says?
Depends on the criteria.

The clot shots were touted as all but preventing serious illness AND transmission.
[Reply]
O.city 11:58 AM 07-20-2021
Originally Posted by Discuss Thrower:
Depends on the criteria.

The clot shots were touted as all but preventing serious illness AND transmission.
They do both, first being the main contributor I'd guess and the second is probably blunted a bit. Likely due to Delta being pretty spready.
[Reply]
MahomesMagic 12:00 PM 07-20-2021
Originally Posted by O.city:
So you agree the vaccines aren't failing in Israel (or really anywhere) as he says?
Depends on what the definition of success is.

As defined by Fauci and the US media where the vaccines stop Covid?

Yes, they are obviously failing.

With respect to serious disease and death there is argument about signal..we are watching this in real time now.

Berenson (who El Gato is arguing with, I assume) himself thinks the shots do something for about 3-5 months.
[Reply]
O.city 12:12 PM 07-20-2021
Originally Posted by MahomesMagic:
Depends on what the definition of success is.

As defined by Fauci and the US media where the vaccines stop Covid?

Yes, they are obviously failing.

With respect to serious disease and death there is argument about signal..we are watching this in real time now.

Berenson (who El Gato is arguing with, I assume) himself thinks the shots do something for about 3-5 months.
Covid is the illness caused by infection. They're suppressing serious disease and death. Seems pretty obvious when looking at the data we have.

I'd guess the talk is about antibody wane after that time, which is what was always gonna happen. Doesn't mean failure.
[Reply]
TLO 12:22 PM 07-20-2021
I don't understand why people think antibodies waning is a bad thing.
[Reply]
MahomesMagic 12:40 PM 07-20-2021
Originally Posted by O.city:
Covid is the illness caused by infection. They're suppressing serious disease and death. Seems pretty obvious when looking at the data we have.

I'd guess the talk is about antibody wane after that time, which is what was always gonna happen. Doesn't mean failure.
No, I don't see that.

Problem in the US is we never get data but propaganda.

Other countries are more transparent but the process is unfolding right now.

They seem to do something (reduce symptoms) for a while but I am not sold on 99% suppression of death either.

Remember, the sliver of people that were vulnerable was really small to start with. In order to suppress death the vaccines need to stimulate the weakest people's immune systems. The initial clinical trials were mostly young and healthy.
[Reply]
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