I can't be the only wrestling fan on this site. In fact, I know I that's not the case. The almighty king of n00bs, Sorter, is a wrestling fan. I figure there could be more.....????
Discuss anything wrestling related:
Youth wrestling: Heck, wrestling in Iowa has a rabid Youth wrestling scene...I lived through it, my younger brother lived through it and my brothers who are 15 and 13 are living through it, well the 13 year old is anyway...he's in high school. The 13 year old is a 7th grader who has been wrestling since he was 5 years old and has accumulated 4 state championships since his second grade year...a total badass. Believe it or not, Iowa has a youth wrestling forum that is hopping...even during the summer. Iowans take this stuff seriously. I'm assuming other states have rabid youth followings, for when I watch my bros at National tourneys, we are constantly running into kids and super clubs from other states that are amazing. Ironically, one of the biggest youth tourneys our club hits annually is the Park Hill Individual and Dual tournament...which to my knowledge is in Kansas City (I've never attended that one). Do any of you have kids who are wrestling? If so, how are they doing?
High School Wrestling: High school and college wrestling in Iowa is big... we are known for it, ask AC Slater. State tournament is a big, televised event at the Wells Fargo dome...you will see probably 10 times more spectators at state wrestling in Iowa then any other high school sporting event in Iowa. With some of the crazy talent I have seen/wrestled against at Fargo Nationals, I am assuming that it's either on the rise or just as big in other states as well... What are your thoughts on some of the high school wrestlers and/or teams out there?
College Wrestling: Hell, you Missourians semi-recently had those Askren brothers. I've never met Max, but have met Ben. He was the celebrity guest at Iowa Grade School State one year...he signed autographs and handed the medals and wall charts to all of the kids on the podium that year, which was cool because my youngest brother won it that year and was able to get his championship singlet signed by him. I was with my brother when he approached him....Askren struck me as a funny, goofy type of dude. I don't know Max, but someone posted his blog on an Iowa wrestling message board and the dude seems like a character. I know there are some Oklahomans' who post on this board. Anyone see Okie State defeat Iowa this past weekend? Iowa's first dual loss of the year. Anyone have any thoughts on college wrestling?
International Wrestling: Any of you have any thoughts on the international wrestling scene? Future Olympians, future Olympic champs, future World champs, Greco, Freestyle, etc.?
Wrestling Memories/General Discussion: Any of you have any memories you'd like to share from your personal experience(s) of wrestling when you were in youth, high school or college? Any opinions on females wrestling with males. Last year, a girl named Megan Black made history in Iowa by placing at state. Do you believe females should be able to wrestle with males at that age? Any thoughts on weight cutting? What are some of the most memorable matches to you? Who are your favorite wrestlers? One match that always sticks out to me is this:
Crazy match.
My favorite wrestler (besides my bros and former teammates) of all time is ironically not an Iowan. I don't really have a favorite team in wrestling...I root for individuals. It's a dude from Ohio that I initially hated because I didn't like the way he conducted himself after a match vs. my brother in the national duals when he and my brother were Seniors in High School, in which he defeated my brother. Kid was cocky. He and my brother both went on to wrestle D1, so I followed him since I knew who he was. I ended up becoming a huge fan of the kid's style...the kid could hit cradles from ANY position. He went on to win 2 National titles for Ohio State...and did so both years as an underdog, for he'd lose quite a few silly matches during the season, presumably due to his risky, but dangerous style that worked well for him at NCAA Nationals. It's a dude named Jeff Jaggers. First vid is what really put his name on the map as a high school wrestler. 2nd vid is his 1st NCAA championship as a Junior, in a match where he was a huge underdog, broke his ankle during the match and gutted it out and won. My favorite wrestlers tend to be the ones who are risk takers or brawlers...not afraid to be aggressive or take chances. I can't stand stallish wrestlers who are successful as hell simply because they don't open up and therefore don't give up points and score their own points by capitalizing on the other wrestler's aggression. Boring.
So what ya got?
Note: I have been posting on wrestling message boards for 12 years and I (and I'm sure everyone else involved with the sport) have heard every wrestling joke (rolling around with men, etc.) imaginable, but if ya want to clown on the sport, shoot... it was inevitable to happen anyways on CP, so have at it! [Reply]
Wrestling has become WAYYYY too freaking defensive at the college level. It's become borderline boring. I'm going to post this article that I read a few weeks ago that I think hits the nail on the head.... gotta find it real quick. Something needs to be done to alleviate this shit... I think overly defensive wrestling it the primary reason as to why the sport was momentarily stripped from the Olympics...that and I think it takes people a while to understand the scoring system and therefore, the strategic aspects of wrestling. [Reply]
Before I dig that up...I'm just going to throw this out there...Cary Kolat is the raddest wrestler ever. Youtube some of his technique clips....some of the coolest shit in the world. I love his variation of a standing cradle. [Reply]
Article from 2/13 Des Moines Register. Enough of a wake up call I felt we should all read it so I cheated, copied and pasted it for everyone.
Andy Hamilton: The real problem with college wrestling
By Andy Hamilton
February 12, 2014
When a few coaches fired keyboard-tapped arguments back and forth a couple weeks ago, college wrestling's great dual debate reignited on Twitter.
But while program leaders and fans continue to contend the merits of a proposal that would add a dual tournament scoring system to the current NCAA team championship format, the larger problem remains overlooked.
College wrestling is becoming tedious. Scoring is down. Inactivity is up.
It's a dangerous combination for a sport that dodged the Olympic death sentence it received 365 days ago. Yet college wrestling seemingly isn't learning from the missteps that jeopardized the sport at its highest level.
Aside from its general arrogance, total disregard for public relations and cockamamie rules, the biggest sin committed by FILA -- wrestling's international governing body -- was turning a blind eye to the product on the mat. When international wrestling became hard to watch and harder to understand, spectator growth became virtually impossible.
"I'm not so sure some of that Olympic wrestling hasn't had an effect on how people wrestle at all levels," legendary former Iowa coach Dan Gable said. "And that's one of the reasons why we were getting kicked out of the Olympics -- a lack of action, a lack of scoring."
Sure, it's been the wildest regular season in recent memory with a series head-shaking upsets and there have been a few wildly entertaining duals, too. But how many potential fans clicked to the next channel after an action-less period and never bothered coming back to see the drama that unfolded in Minnesota's win Sunday against Penn State?
The fact of the matter is this: When Oklahoma State scores two takedowns in an entire dual meet and a couple weeks later Iowa follows it up with five, there's a problem. And it's not a problem isolated to the two most storied programs in the sport.
Check out the scores each weekend, and you'll see it's a Division I issue. The first three bouts of last week's dual between Pittsburgh and Virginia Tech produced a grand total of 12 points. A week earlier, Michigan and Ohio State wrestlers tangled for 29 straight minutes without a takedown or near-fall in three consecutive tiebreaker decisions.
"I've seen 0-0 matches in the first period -- and quite often -- from the No. 1 guy in America at pretty much every weight except 165 and 184," Iowa coach Tom Brands said a couple weeks ago. "That's not exciting wrestling. It's boring."
As Brands mentioned, Penn State is an outlier with David Taylor and Ed Ruth and boosting the entertainment value for college wrestling's most exciting lineup. There are individuals on other teams, too, who make it well worth the time it takes to set the DVR and fast forward until they take the mat.
But unless you're in tune with the sport's top entertainers, you can doze off in a sea of scoreless periods. It's becoming more and more of a tactical sport with three-point stances, wrestling on a knee and backing to the edge, all strategies designed to slow an opponent in the neutral position.
What's happening in many cases is neither wrestler takes a chance because scoring is scarce and mistakes are harder to overcome. It's a system that rewards defense rather than risk.
"That's not what our sport is looking for," Gable said. "Our sport is looking for growth; our sport is looking for entertainment; our sport is looking to get into the top core sports in the Olympic Games. And we're not going to do it by standing around and looking at each other."
Wrestling has essentially evolved into a game of who can camouflage stalling the best while the riding-time clock ticks.
"It's hard to watch top(-position) wrestling right now, in my eyes," Northern Iowa coach Doug Schwab said. "There's not a whole lot of emphasis right now being put on turning."
Look, I love wrestling, and I'll watch any dual I can find in the TV listings. But I nearly fell asleep recently watching a match when one guy rode another for more than six minutes without remotely coming close to a turn.
It's a complex issue and a vicious cycle. Referees don't want to interject themselves into the outcome of matches, so stalling calls have generally gone by the wayside. Wrestlers want to take the fast path to victory, and coaches are teaching them methods to succeed in the current environment.
So action grinds to a halt, spectators watch a deteriorating product on the mat and potential fans look for something on another channel.
If people who are passionate about wrestling aren't thrilled with what they see, then what do casual viewers think?
Meanwhile, the duals debate rages on after two years of bickering and forming allegiances on each side. It's like arguing over which shade of carpet to install as rain pours through the roof.
"Our product is not where it needs to be," Gable said, "to make advancements, to be able to get sponsorship, to be able to get viewers, to be able to get people to walk in and say, 'What is this? This is great.' "
It once was, though, and it still is at times. But until the product is more entertaining on every college mat in the country, changing the national championship format won't solve wrestling's biggest issue.
But, hey, at least the carpet might look nice when the roof caves in.
Andy Hamilton is a three-time national wrestling writer of the year. Help him get to 6,000 Twitter followers, @Andy_Hamilton. [Reply]
And these days, Iowa Hawkeye wrestling is the epitome of defensive wrestling. I hate it because I grew up wrestling with the mentality of "a best defense is a good offense." [Reply]
I can see it with NCAA wrestling. I hate Hawkeye wrestling right now...they are the epitome of boring.
Northern Iowa on the other hand...those guys freaking go after it.
In terms of preference of styles, I like the Schwab coached products more than I like the Brands coached products...as of the past couple-few years anyways.
Nothing better than the Iowa High School state tournament though.... hell even the youth state tournament is awesome in Iowa. Packed, intense, electric house. [Reply]
Originally Posted by rico:
Article from 2/13 Des Moines Register. Enough of a wake up call I felt we should all read it so I cheated, copied and pasted it for everyone.
Andy Hamilton: The real problem with college wrestling
By Andy Hamilton
February 12, 2014
When a few coaches fired keyboard-tapped arguments back and forth a couple weeks ago, college wrestling's great dual debate reignited on Twitter.
But while program leaders and fans continue to contend the merits of a proposal that would add a dual tournament scoring system to the current NCAA team championship format, the larger problem remains overlooked.
College wrestling is becoming tedious. Scoring is down. Inactivity is up.
.
.
.
One thing I've always been concerned about is riding time. I've never seen a more blatant "stalling" in my life that's not called exactly what it is, stalling.
I'd also contend that "control" needs to be looked at. Lower the bar for what is "control" (or loss thereof), and you'll see the match change a lot. Holding on to a guy's ankle as he drags you across the mat is hardly "control", and it's only "control" because of how they call it. Change that call, and you'll see not only a point awarded, but two wrestlers getting back at it pretty quickly...
I'm less concerned about what's being called or adjudicated as a take-down, but it's a kissing cousin to the disadvantaged wrestler having broken control. I'd take a closer look at that if they're ttying to break the current trend of people calling the sport stale or boring (and getting it booted from the Olympics.
And last..... If I were king for a day, I'd have NO problem awarding a point to the wrestler who had his feet in contact with the starting line "the most" or the wrestler who was in the inner-circle the most. Whatever it takes to award the wrestler who doesn't spend too much time fleeing! I know it's far-fetched, but they've gotta do something! [Reply]
Originally Posted by rico:
I can see it with NCAA wrestling. I hate Hawkeye wrestling right now...they are the epitome of boring.
Northern Iowa on the other hand...those guys freaking go after it.
In terms of preference of styles, I like the Schwab coached products more than I like the Brands coached products...as of the past couple-few years anyways.
Nothing better than the Iowa High School state tournament though.... hell even the youth state tournament is awesome in Iowa. Packed, intense, electric house.
Ryan Morningstar is an assistant coach. Need I say more. That's where the problem starts. He's never been aggressive ever. He has my respect as he was a multiple all-American but boring as hell to watch. I'm with you Rico. Push the action. That's how I'm coaching my boys. [Reply]
Originally Posted by GloryDayz:
One thing I've always been concerned about is riding time. I've never seen a more blatant "stalling" in my life that's not called exactly what it is, stalling.
I'd also contend that "control" needs to be looked at. Lower the bar for what is "control" (or loss thereof), and you'll see the match change a lot. Holding on to a guy's ankle as he drags you across the mat is hardly "control", and it's only "control" because of how they call it. Change that call, and you'll see not only a point awarded, but two wrestlers getting back at it pretty quickly...
I'm less concerned about what's being called or adjudicated as a take-down, but it's a kissing cousin to the disadvantaged wrestler having broken control. I'd take a closer look at that if they're ttying to break the current trend of people calling the sport stale or boring (and getting it booted from the Olympics.
And last..... If I were king for a day, I'd have NO problem awarding a point to the wrestler who had his feet in contact with the starting line "the most" or the wrestler who was in the inner-circle the most. Whatever it takes to award the wrestler who doesn't spend too much time fleeing! I know it's far-fetched, but they've gotta do something!
Riding time is a skill that should be awarded. I agree that with some it's a stall tactic, but if you can't get out from underneath, you don't deserve to win. End of argument. If you get rode like a mule you lose!
Why do you think 90% of wrestlers choose down?? [Reply]
