Originally Posted by Dante84:
I get how it’s currently set up. What I want to know is why they can’t push the cap adjustments out just one year and recognize the lift/decrease the following year?
Having the next years cap number in hand while negotiating the majority of your contracts would seem to be very helpful. Plus, the owners get to keep the dollars an extra year.
What you're suggesting would fundamentally change the entire league and how business is conducted.
Teams wouldn't sign many, if any, players to long term contracts because of uncertainty with their various revenue streams. And like this offseason, teams would be unwilling to commit to any free agents long term, regardless of whether or not it's an extension or a pure free agent, because of the uncertainty of would the cap would be in two, three or four years from now.
Sure, the Chiefs could sign Mahomes to a large extension but under this scenario, many teams would either be way under the cap or way over, especially if the expected increases, which have occurred over the past 10 years of the current CBA, actually turns out to be a decrease in revenue.
In that scenario, teams would be struggling to fit their players under the cap, which would likely result in higher paid players being shown the door, making those teams less competitive.
The bottom line is that it's just impossible for the NFL and its teams to plan 2 years in advance, especially at this juncture, due to expiring broadcasting rights in 2021.
Originally Posted by RealSNR:
I entertained trading Jones for the right price early in the offseason, and I'm open to that now, but come on, people. Chris Jones is a more valuable cog to this defense than Frank fucking Clark.
Frank Clark is a DE. Chris Jones plays primarily on the interior, but he's demonstrated he can play a 5-technique and still get 15 sacks! You can play him anywhere. Getting INTERIOR pressure is worth its weight in gold. You need pressure from the ends, yes, that's not to minimize the important role that Clark plays, but when you do what Jones is able to do, and you ask, "Which one is better to have on your defense?" the answer is CLEARLY Chris Jones.
We could probably be fine without Jones, but that's only because Nnadi, Pennel, and Saunders are pretty good as an interior trio. We could lose Clark, and yeah, we'd be screwed at DE, but we'd still be able to get pressure with Jones.
That's the difference between the two.
I think Jones is a unicorn. Said it for quite some time now. I think he has rare talents that if harnessed with hard work throughout his career will end up in the HOF. I compared his body style and the way he plays to Reggie White and still think that’s accurate.
But Clark brings a mentality this DL didn’t have without him...even though they had Houston and Ford on the edges and Jones in the middle. They were soft.
I’d love to see Veach find a way to keep Jones long term and for him to continue to be coached up to continue to improve, but it appears the situation with the cap won’t allow that...or maybe it will and we see extensions for Mahomes and Jones on July 15th.
Originally Posted by RealSNR:
I entertained trading Jones for the right price early in the offseason, and I'm open to that now, but come on, people. Chris Jones is a more valuable cog to this defense than Frank ****ing Clark.
Frank Clark is a DE. Chris Jones plays primarily on the interior, but he's demonstrated he can play a 5-technique and still get 15 sacks! You can play him anywhere. Getting INTERIOR pressure is worth its weight in gold. You need pressure from the ends, yes, that's not to minimize the important role that Clark plays, but when you do what Jones is able to do, and you ask, "Which one is better to have on your defense?" the answer is CLEARLY Chris Jones.
We could probably be fine without Jones, but that's only because Nnadi, Pennel, and Saunders are pretty good as an interior trio. We could lose Clark, and yeah, we'd be screwed at DE, but we'd still be able to get pressure with Jones.
That's the difference between the two.
Sorry man Frank is far more valuable than Chris and that was proven last season.
Originally Posted by BossChief:
I think Jones is a unicorn. Said it for quite some time now. I think he has rare talents that if harnessed with hard work throughout his career will end up in the HOF. I compared his body style and the way he plays to Reggie White and still think that’s accurate.
But Clark brings a mentality this DL didn’t have without him...even though they had Houston and Ford on the edges and Jones in the middle. They were soft.
I’d love to see Veach find a way to keep Jones long term and for him to continue to be coached up to continue to improve, but it appears the situation with the cap won’t allow that...or maybe it will and we see extensions for Mahomes and Jones on July 15th.
If Jones is such a Unicorn then why aren't teams lining up to get him away from KC during this contract situation?
I would imagine Jones is more valuable to most teams just because finding interior guys who can get pressure like that aren't very common, and most GMs and coaches want that more than anything these days.
Originally Posted by RunKC:
Sorry man Frank is far more valuable than Chris and that was proven last season.
'Far more valuable' is a bit of a stretch. Clark brought a much needed attitude change to the D and he is better against the run than Jones but Jones is much more of a force to be reckoned with when it comes to pass rushing. Jones didn't have a ton of sacks this year but he is without a question our main pass rushing threat.
i'd say it's about even. Both great players with different strengths and weaknesses. They complement each other well too.
I think signing Jones to a huge deal isn't worth it for Chiefs since we have Reid/Mahomes and are already paying a ton to Frank Clark. But he deserves to get paid a lot by another team who needs a good pass rushing DT to help get their defense and team to the next level. He's a good player but if I'm Veach I'd let him go.
Originally Posted by BossChief:
Nobody would know if they already were or not.
Yep.
The Colts just gave up #13 overall to the 49ers for DeForest Buckner, a defensive tackle with similar numbers to Chris Jones in the past 4 four seasons, then gave him an extension worth $21 million per season.
If/When Veach decides to trade Jones, he'll definitely get at least a 1st rounder for Jones and maybe more, depending on the slot.
And just like Buckner, fans may not know that a trade is or has been in the works until it's announced.
The Colts just gave up #13 overall to the 49ers for DeForest Buckner, a defensive tackle with similar numbers to Chris Jones in the past 4 four seasons, then gave him an extension worth $21 million per season.
If/When Veach decides to trade Jones, he'll definitely get at least a 1st rounder for Jones and maybe more, depending on the slot.
And just like Buckner, fans may not know that a trade is or has been in the works until it's announced.
Veach really does hold all of the cards here. Chris Jones isn’t holding out for too long this year unless he goes full retard and pulls a LeVeon Bell. He wasn’t a first rd pick. He’s only made just north of $6 million in career earnings. I can’t see him sitting out and throwing away his chance to at least double his net worth in even half a season this year.
Besides this, Veach has interior options in Tanoh, Saunders in year 2 and even Speaks as a reclamation project.
And even still, if Veach trades Jones and still thinks we need some pass rush help, Jadeveon Clowney and Everton Griffin are good pass rushers available that can rush inside on passing downs and would easily be cheaper than the franchise number we are projected to pay Jones.
It sucks for Jones bc he deserves $21 million IMO, but he has no control here. Veach might just have to say “fuck it Chris. Get ready for the stretch run.”
But if a team offers a top 20 pick for him? I’d make that deal