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Washington DC and The Holy Land>Here is a tribute to the 'Mad Dog' hoping he is tapped for DOD
Chiefshrink 12:05 PM 11-24-2016
I think it is only fitting to repost this modern day General Patton speech in tribute to General Mike Mattis hoping he leads the DOD because he will not apologize for defending this country. And what a day to post this speech, Thanksgiving !!!!

Enjoy my conservative hawk brethren !!!!


[Reply]
BucEyedPea 09:34 PM 11-25-2016
Originally Posted by listopencil:
What I saw (briefly) were references to incidences that I have already remarked on in other threads. None of which would be considered an attack. The same chest pounding that I witnessed (and took part in) versus the USSR and her allies personally when I was in the military
The pattern never changes for stirring up the people. There will always be more Gulf of Tonkins.
" In war, truth is the first casualty." Aeschylus (525 BC - 456 BC)

[Reply]
listopencil 09:38 PM 11-25-2016
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea:
The pattern never changes for stirring up the people. There will always be more Gulf of Tonkins.

Oh, sure. It works. These things don't alarm me. These 'incidents' aren't even all that surprising to me. I've been about 20 feet away from the other ship during this kind of stuff. I was ordered below decks for flipping one of them off.
[Reply]
BucEyedPea 09:46 PM 11-25-2016
Also, in that link listo, it quotes this: "They know Clinton is tough," said Kupchan....

Cliff Kupchan held a senior State Department position during the Clinton Administration.
He's head of Eurasia Group and writes for some globalist outlets like Foreign Affairs. These are the people HiLiaRy was working for—besides Soros.
FA thinks Trump's populism is extremism.
[Reply]
listopencil 09:55 PM 11-25-2016
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea:
Also, in that link listo, it quotes this: "They know Clinton is tough," said Kupchan....

Cliff Kupchan held a senior State Department position during the Clinton Administration.
He's head of Eurasia Group and writes for some globalist outlets like Foreign Affairs. These are the people HiLiaRy was working for—besides Soros.
FA thinks Trump's populism is extremism.
I just did a quick skim of what I could find on Eurasia Group. Yuck. Kupchan can fuck right off.
[Reply]
Easy 6 10:00 PM 11-25-2016
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea:
It's a piece that is mostly opinion than independent reporting. It's really an editorial. It's too long to really post, imo.
I went back and forth on this when it first came up. I think it was with Donger, who falls for anything bad said about Iran.
Never been an ass to you

Never joined in on the dogpile "fun"

But God. damn. girl... is there EVER a situation in which you think the US should stick up for itself with real force? Are you going to tell us that Iran is an honest actor, abiding jot and tittle with all of its obligations and not conspiring behind the scenes to thwart any anti-nuclear measures we might try?

I've never been nasty to you

I've never talked down to you

But your insistence that anything the US does to blunt people like this represents some kind of ****ing hegemony has gone far enough... we have legitimate interests all over the world, and if maintaining those isnt worth a damn

Then neither is our nation

We are not going to just sit back while the russkies and chinamen do whatever the **** they want
[Reply]
BucEyedPea 10:14 PM 11-25-2016
Originally Posted by Easy 6:
Never been an ass to you

Never joined in on the dogpile "fun"
This is all true. Does that mean I can't disagree with you on something then?
You know starting wars is something I am against unless it falls within Just War Doctrine.

Originally Posted by :
But God. damn. girl... is there EVER a situation in which you think the US should stick up for itself with real force?
Yes, I do and have posted when in where for years in this forum.

Originally Posted by :
Are you going to tell us that Iran is an honest actor, abiding jot and tittle with all of its obligations and not conspiring behind the scenes to thwart any anti-nuclear measures we might try?
I have explained my position with regard to Iran, as well as the entire MidEast wars (which I have disagreed with since invading Iraq) over and over. I would think you would understand it by now—my reasons for the position I take with regard to that area of the world.

I don't trust govt, I especially don't trust it with regard to starting wars in this era. It's all part of the same globalism, you seem to reject. These are regime change operations. They are not wars for the defense of this nation and it's destroying us just as much.

War is just another govt program and is the flip-side of the welfare state.

Originally Posted by :
I've never been nasty to you

I've never talked down to you
I don't see what this has to do with anything. It's just a disagreement on an issue. It is nothing personal.

Originally Posted by :
But your insistence that anything the US does to blunt people like this represents some kind of ****ing hegemony has gone far enough... we have legitimate interests all over the world, and if maintaining those isnt worth a damn

Then neither is our nation
Well then, we just disagree.

Originally Posted by :
We are not going to just sit back while the russkies and chinamen do whatever the **** they want
The Ruskies and China now too? You'd have us at war with nearly the entire world then. How can you claim to want to cut back on any of these military interventions then?

BTW, I never said they could do whatever they want. That's a pretty sweeping statement. I support Just War Doctrine, particularly Christian Just War Doctrine. I do not support sending terrorists groups into a country we have had a vendetta against since the 1950's or because of their quarrel with Israel over Palestine, in order to make them easier to take down with another war later—then complain that they came to close to our boats. I simply think you are putting your trust again in the same people who gave us the mess in Iraq, Libya, Syria and Yemen as well as the Ukraine and Georgia. Even Soros-funded groups have been wrecking havoc in some of those places too.

Again, not being an ass to you just do not like this stuff and am vehemently opposed to it. The claims made by Mattis about Iran and AQ or ISIS are coming from the same sources that have acted as Pied Pipers before. I argue with you in hopes, that a good person like yourself, will see that and not follow them.
[Reply]
Easy 6 10:31 PM 11-25-2016
Yes, we will just have to disagree about all kinds of things BEP

If you'd prefer China or Russia hold sway over 2/3 of the world... then it will only weaken your position there in Florida, everything from seafood to the price of steel will cost America more when we're cut off from the supply

You may not like it, but this world is still ruled by the Law of the Jungle... and if you're not for America, then who are you for?
[Reply]
BucEyedPea 10:45 PM 11-25-2016
Originally Posted by Easy 6:
Yes, we will just have to disagree about all kinds of things BEP
"All kinds of things?" No just on our current foreign policy.

Originally Posted by :
If you'd prefer China or Russia hold sway over 2/3 of the world... then it will only weaken your position there in Florida, everything from seafood to the price of steel will cost America more when we're cut off from the supply
So we should go to war with them simply because they hold sway in some part of the world? I am not buying that this is their goal for 2/3rds of the world.

But let's analyze what you're saying on that:

We didn't have to re-build China into the economic might it has become, by having our govt using management trade pacts to outsource our heavy industry. To my knowledge George Bush was a protectionist for our steel industry. As a matter of fact, I posted once that govt policy leading to outsourcing our heavy industry was not a good development, in the event of a war. However, the argument for trade is that it leads to less war and more cooperation—if it's true free-trade of course, which I can't say is the case.

I don't think Russia aims to hold sway over 2/3rds of the world. They're too weak. I think their GDP is the size of Italy's. So what you're saying is propaganda, tho' I think you truly believe it. I think they feel threatened by bad people in our govt who want that. They just don't want NATO pushing up on their borders and they have a right to be concerned about their own backyard. However, you seem to think, I am opposed to the use of force completely, when it's the false reports for bringing them about I oppose. So the force is not necessary.

I don't understand, why did you vote for Trump who wanted detente with Russia?

Originally Posted by :
You may not like it, but this world is still ruled by the Law of the Jungle... and if you're not for America, then who are you for?
That has nothing to do with my position anyway. Sounds more like global domination is okay, when we're the ones doing it.
[Reply]
patteeu 09:09 AM 11-26-2016
Originally Posted by listopencil:
Can you copy and paste the text describing these 'attacks'? I use an ad blocker, and the site popped up a panel blocking the article so quickly that all I could read were examples reminiscent of Cold War bullshit, and not a single attack listed.
When this happens, try to paste the url into what Chrome calls an incognito window. Safari calls it private browsing, I think.
[Reply]
GloucesterChief 09:13 AM 11-26-2016
Originally Posted by Easy 6:
Maybe not directly, as is the fashion these days... but the Yemen Houthis didnt acquire missiles capable of taking out ships in a vacuum

UAE civilian ship attack



Their proxies attack US ship for a second time with sophisticated missiles

You do understand that Obama was drone bombing the Yemeni rebels for years before these incidents happened, right? In fact we were drone bombing them to help out the Saudi's not to combat terrorism. Sorry, but those aren't acts of war since the US had long used violence first against those groups.
[Reply]
patteeu 09:19 AM 11-26-2016
Originally Posted by Easy 6:
Yes, we will just have to disagree about all kinds of things BEP

If you'd prefer China or Russia hold sway over 2/3 of the world... then it will only weaken your position there in Florida, everything from seafood to the price of steel will cost America more when we're cut off from the supply

You may not like it, but this world is still ruled by the Law of the Jungle... and if you're not for America, then who are you for?
That's right. :-)
[Reply]
patteeu 09:23 AM 11-26-2016
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea:
"All kinds of things?" No just on our current foreign policy.



So we should go to war with them simply because they hold sway in some part of the world? I am not buying that this is their goal for 2/3rds of the world.

But let's analyze what you're saying on that:

We didn't have to re-build China into the economic might it has become, by having our govt using management trade pacts to outsource our heavy industry. To my knowledge George Bush was a protectionist for our steel industry. As a matter of fact, I posted once that govt policy leading to outsourcing our heavy industry was not a good development, in the event of a war. However, the argument for trade is that it leads to less war and more cooperation—if it's true free-trade of course, which I can't say is the case.

I don't think Russia aims to hold sway over 2/3rds of the world. They're too weak. I think their GDP is the size of Italy's. So what you're saying is propaganda, tho' I think you truly believe it. I think they feel threatened by bad people in our govt who want that. They just don't want NATO pushing up on their borders and they have a right to be concerned about their own backyard. However, you seem to think, I am opposed to the use of force completely, when it's the false reports for bringing them about I oppose. So the force is not necessary.

I don't understand, why did you vote for Trump who wanted detente with Russia?



That has nothing to do with my position anyway. Sounds more like global domination is okay, when we're the ones doing it.
When has there ever been true free trade to test your theory about peace?
[Reply]
patteeu 09:24 AM 11-26-2016
Originally Posted by GloucesterChief:
You do understand that Obama was drone bombing the Yemeni rebels for years before these incidents happened, right? In fact we were drone bombing them to help out the Saudi's not to combat terrorism. Sorry, but those aren't acts of war since the US had long used violence first against those groups.
They're still acts of war.
[Reply]
GloucesterChief 09:29 AM 11-26-2016
Originally Posted by patteeu:
They're still acts of war.
I should say that they aren't Casus Belli because the US has already did some against those groups. If you don't want your ships attacked in international waters, don't get involved in proxy wars.

Anyway, the Yemeni rebels have every right to hit back.
[Reply]
patteeu 09:40 AM 11-26-2016
Originally Posted by GloucesterChief:
I should say that they aren't Casus Belli because the US has already did some against those groups. If you don't want your ships attacked in international waters, don't get involved in proxy wars.

Anyway, the Yemeni rebels have every right to hit back.
That's more like it, although when talking about our enemies I would never characterize it as a right to hit back. No one has that right.
[Reply]
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