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The Marty Lounge>Steven Nelson calls out Chiefs and Bob Sutton
MAHOMO 4 LIFE! 08:49 AM 04-17-2019

Former Chiefs CB Steven Nelson, now with Steelers, says he felt 'shaded' by Chiefs fans, KC's predictable scheme puts players in tough spot. "You have to switch it up. It's the National Football League." https://t.co/NpGrWm2QBX

— Jeremy Fowler (@JFowlerESPN) April 17, 2019


"I kind of felt like I was shaded," Nelson said about his time there. "I just felt like it was a slap in the face. A lot of people didn't really know what was going on there. A lot of players took the heat."

"You're a target to other teams, referees, fans. It's just not a good thing," Nelson said. "You have to switch it up. It's the National Football League. These offenses are smart. If you switch it up like these other offenses are doing, you can make plays."
[Reply]
Detoxing 03:04 PM 04-18-2019
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
I like Houston a lot, but not at that price.

I'm not saying that pass rush isn't important. I'm just saying that sack totals are OVERVALUED. Stopping the run is UNDERVALUED.

Breeland>Nelson. Mathieu>Sorensen.

They're making improvements.
Mathieu is greater than Sorenson, yes. That's the only real UPGRADE that's been made so far.

But the Breeland vs Nelson thing is highly debateable. When you looked at a more encompassed break down of their stats there were a lot of things that Nelson did better than Breeland.

Like tackling for example.
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JakeF 03:11 PM 04-18-2019
Originally Posted by Cave Johnson:
Houston will put up 15-18 sacks in Indy, lol.

You're adorable.
Thanks. :-)

Houston got 9 sacks with us last year and he wasn't completely healed yet. Sutton-The-Dumbass used him as a standup linebacker for the first 10 games and Justin got just 3 sacks. After switching to DE, Houston got 6 sacks in the final 6 games. He also got 2 sacks in 2 games in the postseason.

Clearly, Houston is better when lining up at DE as he averaged 1 sack per game there. So yes, I think a healthier Justin can get 15-18 sacks next season if Indy is smart enough to play him at DE all year.

Houston might get hurt again and get nothing as well.
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Best22 03:13 PM 04-18-2019
Originally Posted by JakeF:
Thanks. :-)

Houston got 9 sacks with us last year and he wasn't completely healed yet. Sutton-The-Dumbass used him as a standup linebacker for the first 10 games and Justin got just 3 sacks. After switching to DE, Houston got 6 sacks in the final 6 games. He also got 2 sacks in 2 games in the postseason.

Clearly, Houston is better when lining up at DE as he averaged 1 sack per game there. So yes, I think a healthier Justin can get 15-18 sacks next season if Indy is smart enough to play him at DE all year.

Houston might get hurt again and get nothing as well.
Houston was healthy last year. He got 9 sacks on a line with Ford and Jones. Good player but in no way worth AD money
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JakeF 03:22 PM 04-18-2019
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
GOOD. Then you should understand what they've done so far this offseason.

What kind of DE's have they signed? What kind of player is Honey Badger?
You can't have just run defense either.

A defense needs to be able to defend the run and the pass. Getting rid of our pass rushers didn't make us better. We should have added other parts to go along with our pass rush instead.

I understand that Justin Houston was way too expensive but he wasn't the reason our defense sucked. If you look rationally at the situation, a case can be made that Houston was our best all-around player.

Dee Ford was a one-trick pony
Chris Jones was a liability against the run
Hitchen was bleh
Fuller was solid
Ward might develop into a quality all-around player

Justin Houston can defend the run and rush the passer, the only player on our roster last year that could do both.
[Reply]
JakeF 03:29 PM 04-18-2019
Originally Posted by Best22:
Houston was healthy last year. He got 9 sacks on a line with Ford and Jones. Good player but in no way worth AD money
I still don't think his knee was at 100% last year. Who knows, it may never be 100% again. Houston only played on the Dline with Jones/Ford for the final 6 games. If he had played there the entire year his numbers averaged out to 16 sacks. That would have put him tied with J.J. Watts for 2nd in the league.

Houston was absolutely getting paid too much. The point is that getting rid of Ford and Houston doesn't make us better, it makes us worse. We can only hope that some of the other guys we added and our new coaching staff makes up for the loss of Houston and Ford.
[Reply]
Chris Meck 03:39 PM 04-18-2019
Originally Posted by Detoxing:
Then you'd be wrong. Dead wrong.

Controlling the clock does not come simply from running the ball.

It comes from converting 1st downs.

We saw many, many times (hell look at the AFCCG) the Chiefs hold up well on 1st and 2nd down only to give up a big passing play on 3rd down.

Just re-watch the AFCCG for proof. And that was a problem all season long.
there are just as many examples of The Chiefs not being able to stop the run. So while you may disagree, I think you are exaggerating to say 'dead wrong'. You could argue that the inability to stop the pass is MORE of an issue in your mind. I'm clearly not saying the ONLY thing that sucked is that we couldn't stop the run.

And by 'big' passing play, I assume you mean 'important'. Short/intermediate passes really killed us, I agree. The reason is the ball comes out too quickly for the pass rush to get there, and we didn't cover anyone worth a shit, but were especially terrible in the flats, and in the short middle, curls, and slant areas.
These are your high percentage passing plays that move the chains and eat clock, along with an ability to run the ball effectively, I agree.

I would assume that the signing of Mathieu and Breeland are intended to help that situation. I think it's pretty clear that Mathieu>Sorensen/Murray. and while some might disagree, I for one think it's clear that Breeland>Nelson.

So, you know, arguing which parts of a #31 ranked defense sucked worse is six of one, half dozen of the other.
[Reply]
Chris Meck 03:40 PM 04-18-2019
Originally Posted by JakeF:
You can't have just run defense either.
You think so? Wow, I'd never considered that.
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St. Patty's Fire 03:41 PM 04-18-2019
Nelson is awfully arrogant for a mediocre player.

Glad that shit head is gone. He’ll fit right in with Pittsburgh
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JakeF 03:42 PM 04-18-2019
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
You think so? Wow, I'd never considered that.
Let's hear it for Captain Snark!! :-)
[Reply]
Sweet Daddy Hate 03:46 PM 04-18-2019
What part of we're changing our pass rush is not getting through to some of you? Do I have to bust out the MS Paint?
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Chris Meck 03:58 PM 04-18-2019
Nobody's saying you don't have to stop the pass. Nobody's saying fuck it, put 11 men in the box for fuck's sake.

You have to take away SOMETHING. It's a passing league, blah, blah, but have you forgotten how Pittsburgh and Tennessee just ran at will on us in the play-offs?

You take that away. Then you take away the short/intermediate passing game. You force their QB to have to go throw for throw with Mahomes downfield to win. How many guys can realistically do that?

And they're going to add more secondary too, they're not done. You guys act like if they don't do everything all at once the fucking sky is falling.

I say leading the league in sacks did diddly-squat for us. #31 defense, gave up 40 points three times. We lost a game when we scored 50, first time in NFL history. We couldn't stop the run, we couldn't get to Brady, we couldn't cover broke-ass Gronk and literally forgot to put someone on Edelman most of the time.

We've literally already begun to address all of these shortcomings. There's still the draft and FA continues, plus there will be June 1st cuts and salary dumps to go. They're not done.
[Reply]
JakeF 04:03 PM 04-18-2019
Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Hate:
What part of we're changing our pass rush is not getting through to some of you? Do I have to bust out the MS Paint?
Yes, you do. What kind of miracle is Spagnuolo going to pull after basically saying that he doesn't need pass rushers anymore? I guess he thinks that he can scheme all our sacks now? Trying to generate all your pressure with slants, stunts, and blitzes is very risky. Every so often you will get caught in the wrong place and give up a huge play.

Holding my breath and waiting for the fancy MS Paint.
[Reply]
Megatron96 04:10 PM 04-18-2019
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
GOOD. Then you should understand what they've done so far this offseason.

What kind of DE's have they signed? What kind of player is Honey Badger?
Actually I do understand what Spags is trying to do. He's trying to re-create the defense that he had with the Giants back in 2007 (8?). The unit that held the 16-0 Patriots to 14 points in that SB.

The question is do we have the right guys to essentially simulate Strahan, Osi Umenyiora, Robbins, and the other DT they had. And Antonio Pierce and Mitchell at LB, etc. and so on.

I think the answer is maybe. Jones, Ogbah and Okafor for sure aren't Strahan and Osi, but they are similar type players physically in their size and length and how they like to play. And much has already been said about how Tanoh and Speaks might be much better in the 4-3. And Matthieu is a proven downhill safety that plays the run well, injury issues aside.

But we haven't seen these guys play together, and collectively they have some injury history that gives me pause. And history says that it will take more than a season for this unit to really jell. I hope they prove me wrong.

My point is that Ford and Houston were proven pass rushers, and now we have exactly no proven edge rushers. All one has to do is review the Raiders last year sans Malik to see that mediocre edge rushers can be a big problem all by itself.

Anyway, it's all up in the air right now, I just hope that Spags can find a way to use the talent he has on the field much, much more efficiently that Sutton ever did. I think he will; he just seems like that kind of coach, but we'll see by week 8 or 9 I'm guessing. Definitely by week 12.
[Reply]
Chris Meck 04:10 PM 04-18-2019
Originally Posted by JakeF:
Yes, you do. What kind of miracle is Spagnuolo going to pull after basically saying that he doesn't need pass rushers anymore? I guess he thinks that he can scheme all our sacks now? Trying to generate all your pressure with slants, stunts, and blitzes is very risky. Every so often you will get caught in the wrong place and give up a huge play.

Holding my breath and waiting for the fancy MS Paint.
What are you even talking about? Nobody ever said any such thing.
[Reply]
rabblerouser 04:10 PM 04-18-2019
Originally Posted by Detoxing:
Mathieu is greater than Sorenson, yes. That's the only real UPGRADE that's been made so far.

But the Breeland vs Nelson thing is highly debateable. When you looked at a more encompassed break down of their stats there were a lot of things that Nelson did better than Breeland.

Like tackling for example.
I'd like it if guys weren't running free in the secondary in the first place?
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