Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
It pains me to say it, but it's Brady, and to me it's not particularly close. Peyton struggled way more in big games than I'd have liked. Warner was probably the most dominant I've seen in a small stretch, but it was very short. Brees... I can't stand behind him. He benefited big time playing in a dome and outside of 1 super bowl, he's been really mediocre in the playoffs. Probably a lot of that because of the dome thing. Really hard to crown someone as GOAT is he was never an mvp.
Which leaves me with Montana and Brady. A lot of similarities. But I saw Brady dominate with reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney as his receivers. Whereas Montana typically had an obscene amount of talent.
Montana took KC to the AFCC throwing to guys like Willie Davis, JJ Birden, and Keith Cash. [Reply]
I don't rank Brady as the best QB ever for a number of reasons:
- Only 3 MVPs in 18 seasons (last time he won the award he threw for 32 TDS.. really?)
- Above average regular season numbers but nothing great. Only once in a season threw for 40+ TDs and only once threw for more than 5000 yards.
- Average playoff numbers. In his 16 playoff appearences, 9 out of those he had an avg passer rating of below 90.0 with a total of 34 Interceptions. Sure he won 6 Superbowls but how much of that was Brady's doing? Without Belichik's genius defensive scheming they don't beat the Rams last year. You could argue but he has 4 Superbowl MVPs? Look at his underwhelming numbers in those games. He was slightly better than the opposing QB which by default tilts the award on his favor.
I would say he is the most clutch playoff QB but when you put into the equation the regular season, I just don't see it. Manning was better imo and I'm not even a fan of his. Dude ran his own offense and was a general on the field. [Reply]
Manning is up there too, but whilted under pressure too much.
Question: Why doesn't anyone criticize Brees for this?
The dude has 2 of the most inexplicable losses of all time on his playoff resume. The 2010 1st round home playoff loss to a 7-9 football team. A Seahawks team that was losing 35-10 in the 4th quarter the following week to a Lovie Smith coached Bears squad before putting up 2 garbage time scores and losing in a slightly less embarrassing manner.
And being outgunned by Alex Smith.
And people want to give him a pass on that goofy Minnesota loss when his safety missed the tackle and they lost w/ 0:00 on the clock but Drew - maybe don't throw 2 picks? And the Rams PI last year was brutal but Brees was in full dink/dunk mode by then and was incapable of putting the Rams away in that game. The Saints had their foot on the Rams neck in the 1st half and got virtually nothing out of it. With the ball first, an interception (giving them the ball at the Ram 16) and a 3 and out, the Saints converted 1 of those opportunities into 6 because Brees couldn't power the football into small windows in the red zone. Up 20-10 in the 2nd half and the Saints go Punt, Punt, FG to keep the Rams alive.
And for as bad as the PI was - the Saints had the football to start OT and Brees cut their throats with that pick.
Nobody EVER says "hey wait a minute now - what about Brees in the post-season...." but Manning takes worlds of shit for it. Just seems strange to me. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Greatest passer of all time is Brees or Warner; everyone else can vie for #3 if they'd like, but as pure passers I've never seen anyone better than those 2.
Greatest multi-threat QB of all time is Steve Young. And if I could choose any QB to start a franchise with and have that QB at 23 yrs old going forward, it would be Mahomes...but Young would be #2. I think you could've given him any coach and any system at any time and he'd have been able to execute it at the highest level. Steve Young is criminally underrated.
Greatest career of all time has to be Brady. I mean fuck you if I'll ever vote for him in a poll or anything; I'm not reducing that to a number. But dude has like 10 AFC championships and 6 SB rings or whatever - the numbers are so goddamn ridiculous as to defy memory. He has SB comebacks and amazing playoff performances. Sure, his coach is a wizard and his division is a joke so he has had more opportunities than anyone, but he's done quite a damn bit on his own.
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Question: Why doesn't anyone criticize Brees for this?
The dude has 2 of the most inexplicable losses of all time on his playoff resume. The 2010 1st round home playoff loss to a 7-9 football team. A Seahawks team that was losing 35-10 in the 4th quarter the following week to a Lovie Smith coached Bears squad before putting up 2 garbage time scores and losing in a slightly less embarrassing manner.
And being outgunned by Alex Smith.
And people want to give him a pass on that goofy Minnesota loss when his safety missed the tackle and they lost w/ 0:00 on the clock but Drew - maybe don't throw 2 picks? And the Rams PI last year was brutal but Brees was in full dink/dunk mode by then and was incapable of putting the Rams away in that game. The Saints had their foot on the Rams neck in the 1st half and got virtually nothing out of it. With the ball first, an interception (giving them the ball at the Ram 16) and a 3 and out, the Saints converted 1 of those opportunities into 6 because Brees couldn't power the football into small windows in the red zone. Up 20-10 in the 2nd half and the Saints go Punt, Punt, FG to keep the Rams alive.
And for as bad as the PI was - the Saints had the football to start OT and Brees cut their throats with that pick.
Nobody EVER says "hey wait a minute now - what about Brees in the post-season...." but Manning takes worlds of shit for it. Just seems strange to me.
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Question: Why doesn't anyone criticize Brees for this?
The dude has 2 of the most inexplicable losses of all time on his playoff resume. The 2010 1st round home playoff loss to a 7-9 football team. A Seahawks team that was losing 35-10 in the 4th quarter the following week to a Lovie Smith coached Bears squad before putting up 2 garbage time scores and losing in a slightly less embarrassing manner.
And being outgunned by Alex Smith.
And people want to give him a pass on that goofy Minnesota loss when his safety missed the tackle and they lost w/ 0:00 on the clock but Drew - maybe don't throw 2 picks? And the Rams PI last year was brutal but Brees was in full dink/dunk mode by then and was incapable of putting the Rams away in that game. The Saints had their foot on the Rams neck in the 1st half and got virtually nothing out of it. With the ball first, an interception (giving them the ball at the Ram 16) and a 3 and out, the Saints converted 1 of those opportunities into 6 because Brees couldn't power the football into small windows in the red zone. Up 20-10 in the 2nd half and the Saints go Punt, Punt, FG to keep the Rams alive.
And for as bad as the PI was - the Saints had the football to start OT and Brees cut their throats with that pick.
Nobody EVER says "hey wait a minute now - what about Brees in the post-season...." but Manning takes worlds of shit for it. Just seems strange to me.
Excellent point. I love Brees but he’s shit the bed a few times. And Manning is continually underrated.
I mean FFS his head coach was brought in to run the buttfucking Tampon 2 and was the mentor of Squirmin Herman Motherfucking Sack of Cunt Edwards (fuck that fucking guy). Let’s be real here. The one thing Dungy was there to do remarkably consistently sucked ass. Manning won despite that fuckhead. If you’re going to discredit Brady for Belicheat you have to give manning a ton of credit for Dungy. And Kubiak isn’t materially better. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Question: Why doesn't anyone criticize Brees for this?
The dude has 2 of the most inexplicable losses of all time on his playoff resume. The 2010 1st round home playoff loss to a 7-9 football team. A Seahawks team that was losing 35-10 in the 4th quarter the following week to a Lovie Smith coached Bears squad before putting up 2 garbage time scores and losing in a slightly less embarrassing manner.
And being outgunned by Alex Smith.
And people want to give him a pass on that goofy Minnesota loss when his safety missed the tackle and they lost w/ 0:00 on the clock but Drew - maybe don't throw 2 picks? And the Rams PI last year was brutal but Brees was in full dink/dunk mode by then and was incapable of putting the Rams away in that game. The Saints had their foot on the Rams neck in the 1st half and got virtually nothing out of it. With the ball first, an interception (giving them the ball at the Ram 16) and a 3 and out, the Saints converted 1 of those opportunities into 6 because Brees couldn't power the football into small windows in the red zone. Up 20-10 in the 2nd half and the Saints go Punt, Punt, FG to keep the Rams alive.
And for as bad as the PI was - the Saints had the football to start OT and Brees cut their throats with that pick.
Nobody EVER says "hey wait a minute now - what about Brees in the post-season...." but Manning takes worlds of shit for it. Just seems strange to me.
Do you want me to unpack this?
Because honestly you're a smart guy. You should be able to figure this out.
There's a very good reason Manning takes shit for his playoff underperformances. They were common, especially early in his career. Taking a cast of all-stars and failing to score 20 points in a ton of losses hurt. If Patrick Mahomes had gone into the playoffs and the team scored 13 points in a loss to the pats, criticism would be justified. Dude threw 49 TD's in a season and their season ended against the Patriots as Manning and his obscenely talented offense put up 3 points. THREE POINTS! He did what Jared Goff did.
Throwing 3 TD's and 7 INT's en route to his first superbowl win wasn't too impressive either. The defense carried them to 3 of those wins.
Not showing up for the second super bowl appearance.
I won't even dignify the last SB win. 20 QB's could have won the SB on that team. Manning wasn't Manning anymore. He was a shadow.
To Manning's credit, he NEVER had an offensive coach like Payton. Not even close. He had Tony Dungy. Jon Fox. So in terms of coaching he was never at an advantage compared to most successful QB's. No Walsh or Holmgren. No Denny Green or Mike Martz. That's the only out he gets. [Reply]
Manning is up there too, but whilted under pressure too much.
The thing about Manning, I don't think some appreciate how bad an organization the Colts are. They had a very crappy line and a completely miserable Dee for most of his time there. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Shields68:
The thing about Manning, I don't think some appreciate how bad an organization the Colts are. They had a very crappy line and a completely miserable Dee for most of his time there.
This, honestly, is crap. The Colts defense was pretty solid alot of those years. As for talent -- BOTH Harrison AND Wayne are better than any receiver Brady ever had outside of 3 lousy years of Moss. Their OLine was revered when they had Mudd. Jeff Saturday was no slouch, and Tarik Glenn was very good. Running backs -- Edge was excellent, and Addai was above average.
Don't get me wrong -- nobody will confuse the Peyton-era Colts with the 60s Packers or 70s Steelers for talent -- but it was a different league. They weren't suffering for talent relative to the rest of the NFL. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Amnorix:
This, honestly, is crap. The Colts defense was pretty solid alot of those years. As for talent -- BOTH Harrison AND Wayne are better than any receiver Brady ever had outside of 3 lousy years of Moss. Their OLine was revered when they had Mudd. Jeff Saturday was no slouch, and Tarik Glenn was very good. Running backs -- Edge was excellent, and Addai was above average.
Don't get me wrong -- nobody will confuse the Peyton-era Colts with the 60s Packers or 70s Steelers for talent -- but it was a different league. They weren't suffering for talent relative to the rest of the NFL.
Yep. Those old Colts teams were pretty loaded. Brady/Belichick>Manning/Dungy. [Reply]
Greatest passer of all time is Brees or Warner; everyone else can vie for #3 if they'd like, but as pure passers I've never seen anyone better than those 2.
Greatest multi-threat QB of all time is Steve Young. And if I could choose any QB to start a franchise with and have that QB at 23 yrs old going forward, it would be Mahomes...but Young would be #2. I think you could've given him any coach and any system at any time and he'd have been able to execute it at the highest level. Steve Young is criminally underrated.
Greatest career of all time has to be Brady. I mean fuck you if I'll ever vote for him in a poll or anything; I'm not reducing that to a number. But dude has like 10 AFC championships and 6 SB rings or whatever - the numbers are so goddamn ridiculous as to defy memory. He has SB comebacks and amazing playoff performances. Sure, his coach is a wizard and his division is a joke so he has had more opportunities than anyone, but he's done quite a damn bit on his own. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Greatest passer of all time is Brees or Warner; everyone else can vie for #3 if they'd like, but as pure passers I've never seen anyone better than those 2.
Greatest multi-threat QB of all time is Steve Young. I think you could've given him any coach and any system at any time and he'd have been able to execute it at the highest level. Steve Young is criminally underrated.
Thank You! I say this all the time. Steve Young is so damn underrated. I suppose it is because he started with the bucs then went over to San Francisco and was overshadowed by Montana, but he was insane good at the peak of his career.
Originally Posted by crispystl420:
Thank You! I say this all the time. Steve Young is so damn underrated. I suppose it is because he started with the bucs then went over to San Francisco and was overshadowed by Montana, but he was insane good at the peak of his career.
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There were twelve QB seasons in the 90s that featured a 100+ passer rating. Steve Young was responsible for six of those. [Reply]
Originally Posted by ThaVirus:
There were twelve QB seasons in the 90s that featured a 100+ passer rating. Steve Young was responsible for six of those.
Whoa that's crazy. I had no idea. Thanks for that.
In terms of revolutionizing the way the position is played, and being a clutch player as well, the GOAT is Johnny Unitas. Everyone that followed has been impacted by him in some way.
As far as pure talent along with intelligence, it has to be Peyton Manning.
Brady has had the luxury of spending his entire career playing under the GOAT coach, who pretty much built him into what he is today. Remember, Brady was nothing more than a glorified Alex Smith for the first few years of his career. Belichick coached him into what he is today.
Belichick went 11-5 with Matt Freakin Cassell. That season alone shows you where the success comes from in that organization. [Reply]