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The Lounge>Chiefs offensive struggles
O.city 09:32 AM 12-02-2019
Last 2 weeks have been pretty shitty on offense. Sure they scored yesterday, but that's against the shitbird Raiders and the Chiefs looked shitty doing it.

Mahomes doesn't look right to my eye. Anyone else notice he seemed to be laboring to even get back to hand the ball off at times? Is he still hurt?

He looks skiddish in the pocket (with the interior OL I guess I get it) but the Chiefs can't win in the playoffs without him being his normal self.

What's everyone's thoughts on whats going on? Am I just seeing shit?
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O.city 11:51 AM 12-02-2019
Originally Posted by The Franchise:
AND WHERE THE **** IS THE MISDIRECTION?

Iím going to bring this shit up every week where we donít use it. Itís part of why are run game worked last year. We have guys in Hill and Hardman that can do it well. Bring that shit back, Andy.
When they did it yesterday, it worked well.

They aren't a power football team. Stop trying to be.
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DJ's left nut 11:51 AM 12-02-2019
Originally Posted by O.city:
Thompson might have something. I don't know and wont really get my hopes up on it, but he looked fresh yesterday.
It's really strange seeing our RBs running tentatively as often as they do.

Damien, when he was 'right' for a few weeks there, was running HARD even when there weren't a lot of holes to hit. Thompson looked to be running hard. It flashes on the screen (field) when the RBs actually come to play.

But all too often they seem to have accepted that they're largely an afterthought and they seem to play like it. Maybe that's just the way Shady runs so I don't give him much slack (Bell ran like that as well; very deliberate). But guys like Damien, Darrel and Thompson need to getting downhill, IMO. And all too often you can tell that they aren't really focused on doing that.

If Thompson will do so consistently, maybe we'll find something. But I think the bottom line is that the 11 personnel simply won't work in the run game when our IOL sucks this badly. You can't ask a RB to do much work without a lead blocker when the interior line is collapsing. That eliminated cutback lanes and obviously kills the possibility of any holes in the middle. You can't even really bounce outside on those because the damn DL is in your lap before you can change directions.

Without effective IOL play, they need a FB for an effective inside run game. And the FB on the field will largely telegraph our playcalling. It's just a rough situation the Chiefs find themselves in w/r/t to running the football.
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O.city 11:53 AM 12-02-2019
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
It's really strange seeing our RBs running tentatively as often as they do.

Damien, when he was 'right' for a few weeks there, was running HARD even when there weren't a lot of holes to hit. Thompson looked to be running hard. It flashes on the screen (field) when the RBs actually come to play.

But all too often they seem to have accepted that they're largely an afterthought and they seem to play like it. Maybe that's just the way Shady runs so I don't give him much slack (Bell ran like that as well; very deliberate). But guys like Damien, Darrel and Thompson need to getting downhill, IMO. And all too often you can tell that they aren't really focused on doing that.

If Thompson will do so consistently, maybe we'll find something. But I think the bottom line is that the 11 personnel simply won't work in the run game when our IOL sucks this badly. You can't ask a RB to do much work without a lead blocker when the interior line is collapsing. That eliminated cutback lanes and obviously kills the possibility of any holes in the middle. You can't even really bounce outside on those because the damn DL is in your lap before you can change directions.

Without effective IOL play, they need a FB for an effective inside run game. And the FB on the field will largely telegraph our playcalling. It's just a rough situation the Chiefs find themselves in w/r/t to running the football.
With some of the weapons we have, we should be able to still throw it out of 11 with a fullback. Max protect and let Hill and Sammy (ugh) run routes.
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bobbything 11:53 AM 12-02-2019
The offense scored 31 points yesterday in 40 mph winds. No, it wasn't pretty. But 31 points is 31 points.

If anything concerns me about the offense it's the line's inability to give Mahomes enough consistent time to look downfield. That has been a bit of an issue all season. Much moreso than last year.
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DJ's left nut 11:54 AM 12-02-2019
Originally Posted by dirk digler:
IMVHO besides the shitty OL play of a late as Romo was pointing out yesterday teams don't respect our running game so defenses are dropping back.

Don't know if there is a viable older RB available right now but they need to improve that position drastically. I do hope Darwin is the starter though he looked good late.
Yeah, you could see pretty clearly from the stands. Their safeties were never concerned with crashing the LOS. They were in their backpedal almost from the snap.

It takes away a massive advantage because the speed in this WR corps is so dangerous when you can get them into space. But you struggle to find space when there are 5-6 guys back there every time. And when the OL isn't holding strong enough to let downfield routes develop, it makes it even harder to find separation in those crowded situations.

I think it's the natural progression of some of the struggles we've had in the red zone this year. When we can't make teams respect the run game and pull some safeties/LBs out of those intermediate areas, we just struggle to find space. And when our WRs aren't physical guys who will screen guys off and rip balls away in traffic, it's makes things even tougher.
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smithandrew051 11:56 AM 12-02-2019
I’m more convinced than ever that Reid is saving the creativity for the postseason.

I think the postseason begins this week now that the division is all but over.

I really believe that 12-4 will get us the 2 seed when you consider how NE is looking lately.

If we land the 2 seed, we’re back to Super Bowl or bust. The playoffs start this week.
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DJ's left nut 11:56 AM 12-02-2019
Originally Posted by The Franchise:
AND WHERE THE FUCK IS THE MISDIRECTION?

Iím going to bring this shit up every week where we donít use it. Itís part of why are run game worked last year. We have guys in Hill and Hardman that can do it well. Bring that shit back, Andy.
Hardman had at least one nice run and Hill got tattooed on another. It isn't that we don't use them, but they're on teams radars and once again, teams don't respect our ability to run between the tackles so they aren't crashing down anyway, so what good is misdirection?

The TD to McCoy was a clever little fake trap (I think) and the toss out wide to Shady for the walk-in touchdown. We'll want to have that play in reserve for occasional use. But again - gotta make them respect the inside runs a little more for even a play that like that to remain effective.
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O.city 11:58 AM 12-02-2019
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Hardman had at least one nice run and Hill got tattooed on another. It isn't that we don't use them, but they're on teams radars and once again, teams don't respect our ability to run between the tackles so they aren't crashing down anyway, so what good is misdirection?

The TD to McCoy was a clever little fake trap (I think) and the toss out wide to Shady for the walk-in touchdown. We'll want to have that play in reserve for occasional use. But again - gotta make them respect the inside runs a little more for even a play that like that to remain effective.
Some of the stuff with the run game isnt' all on the OL though. The RB's just don't do much. Shady has the vision, but can't get to the hole anymore, and Darrell just ducks his head and goes forward.

I'm about as anti RB as anyone, but they need to invest in it and the interior OL.
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dirk digler 12:06 PM 12-02-2019
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Yeah, you could see pretty clearly from the stands. Their safeties were never concerned with crashing the LOS. They were in their backpedal almost from the snap.

It takes away a massive advantage because the speed in this WR corps is so dangerous when you can get them into space. But you struggle to find space when there are 5-6 guys back there every time. And when the OL isn't holding strong enough to let downfield routes develop, it makes it even harder to find separation in those crowded situations.

I think it's the natural progression of some of the struggles we've had in the red zone this year. When we can't make teams respect the run game and pull some safeties/LBs out of those intermediate areas, we just struggle to find space. And when our WRs aren't physical guys who will screen guys off and rip balls away in traffic, it's makes things even tougher.
Originally Posted by O.city:
Some of the stuff with the run game isnt' all on the OL though. The RB's just don't do much. Shady has the vision, but can't get to the hole anymore, and Darrell just ducks his head and goes forward.

I'm about as anti RB as anyone, but they need to invest in it and the interior OL.

I agree with both of you. We really need a good RB to pair with Mahomes and I think you would see his stats go back to what they were last year.
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DJ's left nut 12:07 PM 12-02-2019
Originally Posted by O.city:
Some of the stuff with the run game isnt' all on the OL though. The RB's just don't do much. Shady has the vision, but can't get to the hole anymore, and Darrell just ducks his head and goes forward.

I'm about as anti RB as anyone, but they need to invest in it and the interior OL.
I agree. But there isn't the depth of starting quality talent on the roster to get tunnel vision.

We need upgrades at LB (across the board), IOL, RB and at least a supplemental talent at WR.

And you're looking at spending picks on the first 2 days to get probable contributors at those spots out of the chute. For as much as we devalue RBs, there AREN'T a lot of 4th round runners that are making noise. Phillip Lindsay/Marlon Mack kind of guys DO happen, but they're not as common as it seems. Even the 'unheralded' James Connor was a 3rd round pick.

Nick Chubb and Kerryon Johnson were 2nd rounders. Mongtomery, Singletary and even Mattison were 3rd rounders. Those guys we think of as 'late round steals' like Kareem Hunt are still 2nd day picks.

We're extremely unlikely to find a real plus RB in the 3rd day. It just doesn't happen as often as we've convinced ourselves it does. If you want something even as effective as Kenyan Drake, you're probably gonna need to spend 3rd round capital on one.

And with needs at other critical positions that will ALSO likely require 1st/2nd day outlays, it just gets awfully tight.
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O.city 12:07 PM 12-02-2019
Originally Posted by dirk digler:
I agree with both of you. We really need a good RB to pair with Mahomes and I think you would see his stats go back to what they were last year.
It sucks and IMO they did what they had to do (and I'm not getting into the logistics of it) but the offense hasn't been as good since Hunt got cut.
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O.city 12:09 PM 12-02-2019
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
I agree. But there isn't the depth of starting quality talent on the roster to get tunnel vision.

We need upgrades at LB (across the board), IOL, RB and at least a supplemental talent at WR.

And you're looking at spending picks on the first 2 days to get probable contributors at those spots out of the chute. For as much as we devalue RBs, there AREN'T a lot of 4th round runners that are making noise. Phillip Lindsay/Marlon Mack kind of guys DO happen, but they're not as common as it seems. Even the 'unheralded' James Connor was a 3rd round pick.

Nick Chubb and Kerryon Johnson were 2nd rounders. Mongtomery, Singletary and even Mattison were 3rd rounders. Those guys we think of as 'late round steals' like Kareem Hunt are still 2nd day picks.

We're extremely unlikely to find a real plus RB in the 3rd day. It just doesn't happen as often as we've convinced ourselves it does. If you want something even as effective as Kenyan Drake, you're probably gonna need to spend 3rd round capital on one.

And with needs at other critical positions that will ALSO likely require 1st/2nd day outlays, it just gets awfully tight.
I think you can have some improvement at RB by improving the OL, so that's where I'd start.

The more I watch and such of it, man, I wouldn't be opposed to taking a RB really early. I know I'm anti that normally, but man they need something back there.
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NJChiefsFan 12:14 PM 12-02-2019
The Bears have lost a lot of their misdirection as well. I know Trubisky is awful most of the time but them, along with the Rams(save for yesterday), both seem off as well.

I don't necessarily think there is a link to them and KC, but it is interesting that 3 of the most unique and dynamic offenses in the league(especially KC/LAR) are off a bit.

I trust that Andy and Mahomes will get it clicking. It's tough being unstoppable and clicking forever in this league. Teams adjust and then KC has to adjust from there. We do still do seem to be stuck in a lower gear right now. Injuries, conditions, whatever it is, it does seem to be so. I think a lot of it is having to adjust to teams forcing us underneath, although DJ mentioned a lot of single-high safety yesterday.

Luckily I think we will eventually click. And to be locked into first place all while trying to "find it", that's not too bad.
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O.city 12:18 PM 12-02-2019
Originally Posted by NJChiefsFan:
The Bears have lost a lot of their misdirection as well. I know Trubisky is awful most of the time but them, along with the Rams(save for yesterday), both seem off as well.

I don't necessarily think there is a link to them and KC, but it is interesting that 3 of the most unique and dynamic offenses in the league(especially KC/LAR) are off a bit.

I trust that Andy and Mahomes will get it clicking. It's tough being unstoppable and clicking forever in this league. Teams adjust and then KC has to adjust from there. We do still do seem to be stuck in a lower gear right now. Injuries, conditions, whatever it is, it does seem to be so. I think a lot of it is having to adjust to teams forcing us underneath, although DJ mentioned a lot of single-high safety yesterday.

Luckily I think we will eventually click. And to be locked into first place all while trying to "find it", that's not too bad.
Exactly. And that's why it's so damn important to win it when you're close and have the chance. It's why last year's finish sucks so much ass.

Things change so much year to year. Teams figure you out a bit, you've gotta change. It's why a coach like Andy is so important and impressive (to some of us lol).

It's also why having a big strong OL and a pocket QB is always the way to go. There are certain things you can't gameplan for.
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The Franchise 12:27 PM 12-02-2019
Originally Posted by O.city:
When they did it yesterday, it worked well.

They aren't a power football team. Stop trying to be.
And thatís my biggest issue with Reid this year. Stop just running up the gut. Our team isnít built like that. And if youíre going to do it.....use Sherman.
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