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Washington DC and The Holy Land>What is Trump afraid of?
Lex Luthor 09:25 AM 11-29-2019
Early in the impeachment investigation, the GOP claimed over and over that all of the testimony was hearsay that was based upon second hand knowledge. Of course, numerous other witnesses with first-hand knowledge corroborated all of the charges, but Trump supporters still seem unaware of this.

There is a very easy way to get to the bottom of it once and for all. Put Rudy Giuliani on the stand. Put John Bolton on the stand. Put Mick Mulvaney on the stand. Put Mike Pompeo on the stand. These guys know exactly what happened because they were right in the middle of it. If Trump is truly innocent and he didn't use extortion to try to dig up dirt on Biden in order to help himself win re-election, they can clear that whole thing up.

Yet Trump has ordered everyone not to testify. That's not what an innocent man does. It's what a guilty man does.

I had a conversation just the other day with a good friend who is a staunch conservative. He told me he doesn't believe Trump did anything wrong, and he blamed the Democrats for making up the whole thing and relying upon hearsay. I asked him why, if Trump is so innocent, did he block so many people from testifying? He was genuinely puzzled by the question, and he said in all sincerity, "Who has he blocked from testifying?".

That's what happens to you when you rely upon Fox News for your information.

A group called "Republicans For the Rule of Law" has launched a campaign to educate GOP voters on the facts of the Ukraine scandal that prompted the impeachment inquiry. They purchased air time on Fox News for this ad. I hope my friend sees the ad and starts to wonder why an "innocent" man would block people from testifying.


[Reply]
IowaHawkeyeChief 02:07 PM 11-30-2019
Originally Posted by Cosmos:
A trillion dollar deficit.... the bill will come due.

The Republican Party has become nothing more than a lie cheat and steal apparatus for corporations and millionaires.

Trump has his base looking the other way, while he makes more billionaires, like himself. People are gullible as hell. :-)

DONALD TRUMP PROMISED TO ELIMINATE THE DEFICIT IN 8 YEARS. SO FAR, HE HAS INCREASED IT BY 68%

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-defic...-obama-1463802
Dolt... The left not only refuses to even look at entitlement reform and demagogue any attempt or discussion to do so, but also all of their Presidential candidates want to add even more entitlements.

Meanwhile, Trump has cut 24,000+ government jobs...
[Reply]
Cosmos 02:28 PM 11-30-2019
Originally Posted by IowaHawkeyeChief:
Dolt... The left not only refuses to even look at entitlement reform and demagogue any attempt or discussion to do so, but also all of their Presidential candidates want to add even more entitlements.

Meanwhile, Trump has cut 24,000+ government jobs...
Entitlement......like corporate welfare?

More corporations than EVER PAY NO TAXES, MORE MILLIONAIRES THAN EVER PAY NO TAXES.

Or giving farmers BILLIONS OF AMERICAN TAX DOLLARS, AMERICAN TAX DOLLARS, AMERICAN TAX DOLLARS.....

Get a clue dude....and sit the fuck back down!
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IowaHawkeyeChief 02:46 PM 11-30-2019
Originally Posted by Cosmos:
Entitlement......like corporate welfare?

More corporations than EVER PAY NO TAXES, MORE MILLIONAIRES THAN EVER PAY NO TAXES.

Or giving farmers BILLIONS OF AMERICAN TAX DOLLARS, AMERICAN TAX DOLLARS, AMERICAN TAX DOLLARS.....

Get a clue dude....and sit the **** back down!
You get a clue and sit the **** down...

You have to have income or profit to have a tax bill. Millionaires who do not have current income do not pay taxes. Most have a company that had an operating loss. They have already paid taxes on their accumulated wealth and have not current income... get it. Also you dolt, Corporations don't pay taxes, the consumer does. If a company doesn't make a profit they don't pay taxes, if they do make a profit, after expenses, they pay taxes which is reflected in the cost of the goods or services they sell... The Billions farmers are currently getting is from Tariffs collected from China that haven't been passed on to the consumer as China has devalued their currency to steady the supply chain... We are the world's number one Agricultural producer for a reason, idiot...

Also, you fail to mention all of the property tax, sales tax companies, farmers and millionaires pay. You fail to mention the payroll taxes they pay for their employees and the taxes their employees pay for having jobs.

Get a clue. Trump has 57% approval on the economy and your socialist candidates don't have a clue...
[Reply]
Marcellus 06:18 PM 11-30-2019
Originally Posted by IowaHawkeyeChief:
It definitely is for you...

The economy wasn't expanding.... GDP for 2016 says hi... Oh, and those job numbers Fulltime and Manufacturing Jobs since 2017 say hi...

Using a baseball analogy Obama went form a .50 average to .200 average over his career... Trump went from .200 to a .325 average. One average keeps you in the minor leagues the other is in the Hall of Fame.
This has been pointed out to that ****ing idiot every time he uses his bullshitbgraphs and statistics.

The fact he ignores the very simple and basic understanding of the differences between Obama inheriting a scenario that could literally only go up and still growing at historically slow pace and what Trump has done tells you his a liar and dishonest piece of shit.
[Reply]
Lex Luthor 11:31 PM 11-30-2019
Originally Posted by IowaHawkeyeChief:
It definitely is for you...

The economy wasn't expanding.... GDP for 2016 says hi... Oh, and those job numbers Fulltime and Manufacturing Jobs since 2017 say hi...

Using a baseball analogy Obama went form a .50 average to .200 average over his career... Trump went from .200 to a .325 average. One average keeps you in the minor leagues the other is in the Hall of Fame.
You're apparently having trouble reading, so I'll post the relevant graphs again.






There is one area where Trump does excel: running up the deficit, and setting new records every year for total national debt (now 23 TRILLION DOLLARS).

If you're going to give Trump all of the credit every time the stock market sets record highs, then you need to give him all of the blame every time the national debt sets record highs.



[Reply]
Cosmos 03:17 AM 12-01-2019
Originally Posted by IowaHawkeyeChief:
You get a clue and sit the **** down...

You have to have income or profit to have a tax bill. Millionaires who do not have current income do not pay taxes. Most have a company that had an operating loss. They have already paid taxes on their accumulated wealth and have not current income... get it. Also you dolt, Corporations don't pay taxes, the consumer does. If a company doesn't make a profit they don't pay taxes, if they do make a profit, after expenses, they pay taxes which is reflected in the cost of the goods or services they sell... The Billions farmers are currently getting is from Tariffs collected from China that haven't been passed on to the consumer as China has devalued their currency to steady the supply chain... We are the world's number one Agricultural producer for a reason, idiot...

Also, you fail to mention all of the property tax, sales tax companies, farmers and millionaires pay. You fail to mention the payroll taxes they pay for their employees and the taxes their employees pay for having jobs.

Get a clue. Trump has 57% approval on the economy and your socialist candidates don't have a clue...
1). So you’re example is Millionaires who don’t make an income....:-)

2). Farmers are already getting some sweet government subsidies.

“It was never the intent of Congress to create a new class of millionaires through federal farm subsidies. Yet, the subsidies continue to flow. Last year alone, a very fortunate 400 entities, including farmers, corporations, and agri-businesses, harvested between $1 million and $9.9 million each in federal farm subsidies.”

https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamand.../#1eee0823efc0

3). Your example is corporations who don’t make a profit...:-) Corporations do pay taxes.

######

Starting in 2018, corporations pay a flat tax of 21% on all their profits. ... In contrast, owners of sole proprietorships, partnerships, and LLCs must pay taxes on all business profits at their individual income tax rates, whether they take the profits out of the business or not.

Several studies have found that U.S. corporations pay a similar or a lower effective tax rate — the rate actually paid — than corporations in other countries. ... Profitable corporations paid U.S. income taxes amounting to just 12.6% of worldwide income in 2010, according to the Government Accountability Office.

Does Walmart (for example) make a profit? Yes...yes they do. Do they pay their fair taxes.:-) Tax laws are written by corporate lobbyists, for the benefit of corporations, and corporations fund lobbyists and congress to make sure the laws pass. And others simply cheat...like Trump has.

Just a single solitary example....of the largest corporations....Walmart.

Keeping it short
Walmart, the world’s biggest company, underpaid US taxes on nearly $2 billion worth of offshore cash, according to whistleblower documents filed by a former Walmart executive to the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) in 2011, and recently obtained by Quartz.

The firm avoided nearly $200 million in taxes on that money and “dramatically” overstated its foreign tax credits in 2009 and 2010 by routing payments from Luxembourg to the United States via the United Kingdom and not declaring they came from a tax haven, the whistleblower wrote.

https://qz.com/1756717/whistleblower...ion-tax-dodge/

4). China is not paying for the $16B given to farmers...

######

Here’s a description from the Urban Institute-Brookings Institution Tax Policy Center, an independent group that models the effects of tax legislation.

A tariff is a tax on imported goods. Despite what the President says, it is almost always paid directly by the importer (usually a domestic firm), and never by the exporting country. Thus, if the US imposes a tariff on Chinese televisions, the duty is paid to the US Customs and Border Protection Service at the border by a US broker representing a US importer, say, Costco. The Chinese government pays nothing, just as the US government pays no tax to Canada for that nation’s tariffs on imported dairy products. Rather, an importer or supplier for a Canadian supermarket pays the duty on Wisconsin cheese that lands in the grocer’s dairy counter.

That explanation, written in September 2018, noted that Trump has a "troubling lack of understanding about how the levies work."

The International Monetary Fund reported in May that this is indeed what happened, saying tariffs imposed on China have "been borne almost entirely by U.S. importers."

Those businesses, of course pass these costs onto consumers.

https://www.politifact.com/wisconsin...rough-tariffs/

5). I haven’t chosen a candidate as of yet, although I’m certain of one I won’t.

5A). Trumps such a straight up businessman who pays his legal taxes, but is doing EVERYTHING HE CAN TO HIDE THEM FROM PUBLIC.....:-)

6). Pick your poll.....50% of Americans want Trump BOTH IMPEACHED AND REMOVED FROM OFFICE.:-)
[Reply]
scho63 03:18 AM 12-01-2019
Originally Posted by Cosmos:
A trillion dollar deficit.... the bill will come due.
Doubling the National Debt was good of course because Obama HAD to do it.

That's why the economy grew, not because he was friendly to business. :-)
[Reply]
Bowser 10:20 AM 12-01-2019
Lex thread, lol
[Reply]
SuperBowl4 09:41 PM 12-01-2019
Originally Posted by scho63:
Doubling the National Debt was good of course because Obama HAD to do it.

That's why the economy grew, not because he was friendly to business. :-)
Both Obama and TRUMP pledged to lower the National Debt while campaigning. Both FAILED. Both the left and right are to blame. The Left/right BS paradigm monopoly
[Reply]
El Lobo Gordo 01:03 AM 12-02-2019
Originally Posted by Cosmos:
2). Farmers are already getting some sweet government subsidies.
In many situations your choice is a choice as to what error your going to make. A free market will try to produce/obtain exactly the right amount of food the market's human population demands. It is not perfect so sometimes it will produce too much food, and sometime it will produce not enough.

Not all errors are created equal. Produce too much food and food goes to waste. Produce too little food and people starve. One error is clearly worse than the other. Farm subsidies are a method by which the government can choose what side the market makes it error(in addition to buying off votes).
[Reply]
BucEyedPea 03:28 AM 12-02-2019
Originally Posted by El Lobo Gordo:
Farm subsidies are a method by which the government can choose what side the market makes it error (in addition to buying off votes).
:-) Pure economic rubbish! :-)

Farm Subsidies Are Corporate Welfare — And They Cost Us Plenty
And make farmers less efficient. Most of these go to larger corporate farmers.
https://mises.org/wire/farm-subsidie...cost-us-plenty
[Reply]
BucEyedPea 03:34 AM 12-02-2019
Originally Posted by Cosmos:
1). So you’re example is Millionaires who don’t make an income....:-)

2). Farmers are already getting some sweet government subsidies.
Be careful now, Buehler, our wheat farmer, claims there have been no more farm subsidies, even before Trump's.

HCF loves farmer subsidies though—our resident free-market guy. Can't make it up! :-)
Roughly 141 million taxpayers in the US, paying for $33 billion worth of subsidies, it works out at a cost of $234 per person on average. Does this work out as a net benefit to the customer? Well research by the CBO and the Department of Agriculture both conclude no correlation between crop and food prices. Farm subsidies and crop insurance don't lower food prices. In part, this is because most of the subsidies go to the more financially secure and bigger farmers. What the agricultural subsidies and crop insurance do is give farmers a guaranteed income...

Farmers are offered a guaranteed income no matter how efficient they are. To use taxpayers money to reduce the incentives is folly. By creating a safety net, farmers are not incentivized to prepare for harvest fluctuations. It is not necessary for them to invest in creating efficient and healthy ecosystems for next year.

https://mises.org/wire/farm-subsidie...cost-us-plenty
Trump's subsidies are a political move. Not that you're for ending farm subsidies...just who they go to.
[Reply]
BucEyedPea 03:46 AM 12-02-2019
NewZealand's Success After They Ditched Farm Subsidies Almost Entirely

Originally Posted by :
For example, New Zealand's dairy farmers used to produce 35 dairy products before the reforms. Today, it produces over 2,200.

The New Zealand government no longer subsidizes over-production so farmers are forced into making decisions that make a profit, and now farmers are more able to align supply with demand. Unlike in the US, farmers in New Zealand are penalized for overproduction, not rewarded.

Before the agricultural reforms in 1984, New Zealand had a dramatic oversupply of sheep meat. Government paid for the slaughter of sheep that could not be sold in 1983. As a result, over 6,000 tons of surplus sheep meat was turned into fertilizer. This was a waste of resources. Farmers were effectively encouraged to continue producing something even if there was insufficient demand. This is exactly what government intervention does: it distorts market mechanisms.

The subsidies and agricultural support are sold as ways of protecting farmers. However, just 1 percent of the country's farmers were forced out. The benefits are well documented. New Zealand's agriculture industry has become not only more profitable, efficient, and innovative, but has also improved its biodiversity.

https://mises.org/wire/farm-subsidie...cost-us-plenty

Valid Comment on Article Quoted.

As an economic segment, agriculture is four times larger in New Zealand as it is in the US. With much heavier reliance on agriculture products, NZ would have a far greater incentive to maintain a subsidy system. Yet, despite it being a larger portion of their economy, they risked dropping the concept near entirely and it worked.

Ag subsidies are nothing more than an effort to line the pockets of the well connected. Just ask Senator Grassley, farm bill supporter and major recipient of subsidies.


[Reply]
SuperBowl4 06:45 AM 12-02-2019
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea:
:-) Pure economic rubbish! :-)

Farm Subsidies Are Corporate Welfare — And They Cost Us Plenty
And make farmers less efficient. Most of these go to larger corporate farmers.
https://mises.org/wire/farm-subsidie...cost-us-plenty
Just listened to this clip on YouTube - PAUL HARVEY FREEDOM TO CHAINS 1965 (BEST VERSION) - all about taxation. I'd post/share it but I can't. It's worth a look.
[Reply]
Lex Luthor 07:40 AM 12-02-2019
What is Trump afraid of?

The article below answers the question pretty succinctly.

Originally Posted by :
Ukraine scandal: I know why Trump top dogs — Mulvaney, Pompeo, Perry & Bolton — won't bark

Because it would be so easy for these people to clear the president, it’s hard to escape the conclusion that their silence is part of a cover-up.

Angus King Opinion contributor
Published 5:00 a.m. ET Dec. 2, 2019

One of Sherlock Holmes’ most famous cases was solved when a normally noisy dog was silent the night of the crime, leading the famous detective to the deduction that it must have been an inside job — the dog knew the intruder.

Those not barking today are the numerous Trump administration officials who are strangely silent when a few short statements (under oath) could go a long way toward exonerating the president from the charge of using the powers of his office for personal gain.

Acting chief of staff Mick Mulvaney, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, Energy Secretary Rick Perry, former national security adviser John Bolton and probably at least a dozen White House and National Security Council staffers — all could clear up, one way or another, the essential question of whether the president was interested in corruption generally in Ukraine last summer, or whether the withholding of military aid and the dangling of a White House meeting was motivated by his personal and political interest in publicized investigations of the 2016 election and the activities of one of his principal rivals. And this would be direct evidence, which no one can call hearsay.

Because it would be so easy for these people to clear the president, it’s hard to escape the conclusion that their silence is less about vague assertions of executive privilege (which isn’t available to cover-up wrongdoing, in any case) and more about not wanting to testify under oath as to what actually happened.

Trump innocence proclaimed

The president continuously proclaims his innocence (the call with the president of Ukraine was “perfect”, the impeachment proceedings are a “hoax,” a “witch hunt” and a relitigation of the 2016 election), which is his right. What is not his right is the active obstruction of the fact-finding process by blocking the testimony of useful witnesses as well as directly (and through his surrogates) attempting to intimidate those who have come forward.

I know of no legal proceeding in any forum where the alleged wrongdoer controls the availability of material witnesses. In most situations, in fact, the very attempt to do so is a crime in itself. If the president is innocent, he should want — no, he should demand — that the above mentioned officials appear in a public forum, under oath and subject to examination, to set the matter straight, as soon as possible.

Indeed, Donald Trump's White House blocks witnesses from coming forward even as he publicly tweets that he'd like them to testify. He can and should rescind his administration's orders today.

Let Ukraine facts out

It’s likely that the full story of this episode will eventually come out (Bolton is reportedly already working on a book, for example). If I were one of the president’s advocates, I would rather have all the facts now rather than have to explain my vote in light of “new” but currently available evidence.

It is not too late for these witnesses to come forward; the process is still ongoing. As a potential juror, my ultimate judgement will be based on the facts as presented, but also, at least in part, upon whether we have this important testimony — and if we don’t, whether it was withheld from us deliberately.

As we learned from Holmes, silence can sometimes be the most powerful evidence of all. Elementary.

Sen. Angus King, an independent senator from Maine, serves on the Select Committee on Intelligence and the Armed Services Committee. Follow him on Twitter @SenAngusKing
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...mn/4347042002/

The money quotes:
  1. Because it would be so easy for these people to clear the president, it’s hard to escape the conclusion that their silence is part of a cover-up.
  2. If the president is innocent, he should want — no, he should demand — that the above mentioned officials appear in a public forum, under oath and subject to examination, to set the matter straight, as soon as possible.
These things are obvious to anyone who looks at this situation without partisan blinders.
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