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Saccopoo Memorial Draft Forum>Mock 11/23/19
kccrow 01:05 AM 11-23-2019
More pretend fun...

Moves
Chiefs trade WR Sammy Watkins to Arizona for a 2020 4th round pick and conditional 4th round pick in 2021. If Emmanuel Sanders and a 5th can get a 3rd and 4th round return, I think a younger Watkins has decent value. The Cards will need a receiver and Watkins' cap space is needed in KC.

Chiefs franchise, then trade DT Chris Jones to Miami for their 2nd round pick in 2020, their 3rd round pick in 2021 and CB Cordrea Tankersley. I don't think KC will get as much for Jones as they probably deserve so it'll be a bit of give and take. The Chiefs gave me some confidence in trading Jones when he was out. I think they can pry away Tankersley in a trade with Miami given he was benched before tearing his ACL last year and now is finally coming back. He showed promise as a rookie and Veach likes reclamation projects.

Chiefs cut OT Cam Erving, SS Daniel Sorensen, P Dustin Colquitt

Chiefs sign the following free agents:
DT A'Shawn Robinson (DET) to a 5-year, $57.5 million deal (mirrors Star Lotuleilei's but time adjusted) with $21.0 million guaranteed and a $15 million signing bonus. Estimated 2020 salary is $7.75 million. Robinson doesn't have the pass rush prowess of Jones, but he's a better run defender and can still get some pressure. The plus is Robinson should be much cheaper than Jones and at the same time shore up the leaky run defense.

OL Graham Glasgow (DET) to a 4-year, $28.0 million deal (similar to Billy Turner and Zach Fulton) with $9.0 million signing bonus and approximate year 1 salary of $6.0 million. Glasgow isn't an All-Pro caliber player but he's rock-solid everywhere he lines up (all 3 interior spots).

DB Jimmy Ward (SF) to a 1-year, $2.0 million deal with $1.0 million guaranteed. Ward is a bit of a Swiss Army knife but his problem is getting knicked up. He's a solid nickel when healthy and that usually means limiting his snaps. He should come at a discount.

SS Darian Thompson (DAL) to a 1-year, $1.5 million deal with $500k guarannteed. Thompson is a solid reserve safety that does a good job coming down in run support.

Chiefs re-sign/extend the following players:
QB Patrick Mahomes - Exercise 5th-year option, then sign him to a 4-year extension for $152 million with $67 million guaranteed and a $27.5 million signing bonus and $33.0 million 2021 option bonus. Estimated 2020 salary is $8.76 million (+3.5 million). (Underlined for emphasis for Direkshun. :-))

CB Bashaud Breeland - Re-sign to 3-year $30.0 million deal (similar to Logan Ryan and Prince Amukamara) with $11.5 million guaranteed and a $4.5 million signing bonus and a $3.0 million roster bonus that guarantees the 5th day of the 2021 league year. Estimated 2020 salary is $8.50 million.

DE Emmanuel Ogbah - Re-sign to a 3-year $18.0 million deal (mirrors Alex Okafor's deal) with a $6.0 million bonus.

WR Demarcus Robinson - Re-sign to a 2-year $5.0 million deal (similar to Chris Conley deal) with a $1.0 million bonus and estimated 1st year of $2.3 million

Chiefs ERFA tender TE Deon Yelder, LG Andrew Wylie, WR Marcus Kemp
Chiefs sign to minimum deals QB Matt Moore, S Jordan Lucas, DT Mike Pennel

Deals, after the rollover, leave Chiefs at approximately $6.5 million in cap space.

Draft

1. CB Bryce Hall, Virginia (6'1" 200)
The Chiefs have lacked a blue-chip corner since they shipped off Marcus Peters (not such a bad decision in retrospect) and should at least find a guy that strikes some fear into a opponents. Hall is a big, fluid corner with outstanding awareness and ball skills as well as solid tackling ability, but lacks the elite top-end speed to be a top-10 pick.

2 (f/MIA). RB J.K. Dobbins, Ohio State (5'10" 215)
The Chiefs should very well take note from the Packers on how to help your superstar QB and that's by showing a re-committment to running the football. Dobbins is a do-it-all back with the power to plow through the interior, the speed to take it outside, breakaway ability, amazing balance, and is a good receiver and pass blocker to boot. Dobbins is as good of an all-around back as you'll find in this draft.

2 (f/SF). DE Kenny Willekes, Michigan State (6'4" 260)
The Chiefs pass rush has been a bit lackluster with Frank Clark underperforming and the injury to Emmanuel Ogbah. Frank Okafor has been a disappointment and Kpass is a spot contributor, so the Chiefs just need more juice. Willekes is a bit undersized (with room to fill out), but he makes up for it with great quickness, play recognition, and hand usage. He reminds me alot of Yannick Ngakoue, who has been productive in Jacksonville's scheme and has developed alot more upper body strength since coming into the league.

3. LB Zack Baun, Wisconsin (6'3" 240)
The Chiefs lack depth and starting ability at linebacker so they need to do something to address it moving forward. Baun reminds me a bunch of Joe Schobert in that he doesn't quite have the size nor power to play the edge in the NFL but he has outstanding lateral agility, a good backpedal, plays good fundamental football and is extremely adept in zone coverage. Once again I find myself touting a tweener Wisconsin linebacker to convert.

4. (f/ARZ). TE Harrison Bryant, Florida Atlantic (6'6" 240)
The Chiefs' stable of tight ends behind Kelce is problematic with Blake Bell and Deon Yelder only each having 3 catches to this point in the season (Yikes!). While I really like Brycen Hopkins, there is some chatter out there about him being a potential 1st rounder or at least a high 2nd rounder. I don't know that the Chiefs can afford to invest that heavily in a guy to sit behind Kelce. I like Bryant quite a bit but he's thin. He runs well, he finds soft spots in zones, and he gives great effort as a blocker most of the time. He just needs to add about 25 pounds to his frame.

4. WR Kalija Lipscomb, Vanderbilt (6'1" 200)
The Chiefs probably need to trade Watkins and bringing back Robinson could be a matter of price (although I have him coming back cheap). Lipscomb has good speed and quickness, runs good routes to gain separation, has solid size and has reliable hands but needs to eliminate the stutter step at the start of his route. That said, Lipscomb has been productive with a terrible QB. The Chiefs continue rebuilding at receiver, piggy-backing off of drafting Hardman last year.

5. OL Matt Peart, UConn (6'5" 300)
The Chiefs could use a swing tackle and Peart looks the part with his athleticism. He also has the ability to swing inside to guard where he has experience, but may need some strength development.

QB: Mahomes, Moore, Shurmur
RB: Dobbins, Williams, Williams, Thompson
FB: Lovett
WR: Hill, Hardman, Robinson, Pringle, Lipscomb, Thompson
TE: Kelce, Bryant, Yelder
OL: Fisher, Rankins, Glasgow, Duvernay-Tardif, Schwartz, Reiter, Wylie, Allegretti, Peart
DE: Clark, Okafor, Ogbah, Kpassagnon, Willekes
DT: Robinson, Nnadi, Saunders, Pennel, Speaks
LB: Wilson, Hitchens, Baun, Niemann, O'Daniel
CB: Breeland, Hall, Ward, Tankersley, Ward, Fenton
S: Mathieu, Thornhill, Thompson, Watts, Lucas
ST: Butker, Some UDFA Punter, Winchester
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 09:19 AM 11-25-2019
If Door #1 is Chris Jones and Door #2 is Robinson, Breeland and a couple of 2nd day picks, gimme door #1 without hesitation.

I like what Breeland's done quite a bit....at $1.5 million. But the guy sucks in coverage. He's a good soldier back there and a solid physical presence. I like Breeland the guy. But there's no way in hell I'm giving him that kind of money when he just can't stay in a guy's pocket. He looks to me to have incredibly stiff hips and very little short area quickness. Quick WRs give him fits and frankly, bigger ones can as well because he has to gather a bit to go up and make a play on the ball.

Nah - just too much money for a guy who's been pretty fungible this year. He's not playing much better than Claiborne so I think I'd just shotgun numbers at the position again before i gave him that kind of deal.

I'd sign Jones, stick him at SDE, re-sign Pennel and let Saunders/Nnadi man the middle before I'd deal Jones for that kind of dick return (though you're right, that's what Veach will get) and spend similar money on Breeland/Robinson.
[Reply]
O.city 09:23 AM 11-25-2019
Originally Posted by BryanBusby:
:-) you're not going to flip your entire interior OL at once without some significant problems

Come the **** on people
Normally, no. But the ones they have in there now aren't very good so I dunno that trying to upgrade it will matter much.
[Reply]
O.city 09:30 AM 11-25-2019
Derrick Henry is a free agent this year.

Any interest?
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 10:13 AM 11-25-2019
Originally Posted by O.city:
Derrick Henry is a free agent this year.

Any interest?
None.

Not being a good pass-catcher is a bit of a problem. But the biggest problem is that he's a tall, heavy back that runs upright. So A) he takes a HELL of a beating out there and B) once he gets paid he could turn into a fat tub o' goo.

I was a fan of Mark Ingram as a target last year because he'd become a very powerful but still explosive back. He has good hands and runs behind his pads so he doesn't take the kind of pounding that Henry does. He's had some weight struggles but seemed to really get a handle on them his last few years in NO (and completely reinvented his body) which suggested a true lifestyle change that would allow him to age well.

Henry's still a fat guy waiting to happen, IMO. And when combined with the iffy scheme fit and abuse he'll take, I'm just not looking that way. Besides, he's so important to that Titans 'exotic run scheme' or whatever the hell they're calling it that they'll probably overpay him. He's worth more to them on their roster than he is to anyone else on theirs.
[Reply]
O.city 10:18 AM 11-25-2019
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
None.

Not being a good pass-catcher is a bit of a problem. But the biggest problem is that he's a tall, heavy back that runs upright. So A) he takes a HELL of a beating out there and B) once he gets paid he could turn into a fat tub o' goo.

I was a fan of Mark Ingram as a target last year because he'd become a very powerful but still explosive back. He has good hands and runs behind his pads so he doesn't take the kind of pounding that Henry does. He's had some weight struggles but seemed to really get a handle on them his last few years in NO (and completely reinvented his body) which suggested a true lifestyle change that would allow him to age well.

Henry's still a fat guy waiting to happen, IMO. And when combined with the iffy scheme fit and abuse he'll take, I'm just not looking that way. Besides, he's so important to that Titans 'exotic run scheme' or whatever the hell they're calling it that they'll probably overpay him. He's worth more to them on their roster than he is to anyone else on theirs.
I dunno that he'd be one to have a weight problem, he's always been jacked and never really struggled with weight before.

He's not a great fit, but I think he'd help the offense as they need some power implemented. He hasn't been a good pass catcher, but has he really been asked to be?
[Reply]
O.city 10:18 AM 11-25-2019
Mark Ingram was a really good signing, would have been a damn nice fit here.

I really think Leveon is in Kc next year, like it or not.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 10:21 AM 11-25-2019
Originally Posted by kccrow:
Remarks in red, and thanks!
Dylan Moses make it to us in your world?

I very much doubt that he does because teams seem to dock guys maybe 5-10 spots for injuries like that if they're considered premier talents. So if he was maybe a top 10 pick before the injury, you figure late teens after. And if he tests well, he'll lose hardly any ground at all.

And with Bush and White both struggling this year (Bush came out on fire but has fallen off over the last several weeks) it seems like it's just !@#$ing hard to play MLB in this league right now.

Maybe we didn't understand just how friggen hard it is to find someone like Derrick Johnson. I mean everyone else we talk about when we say "X would fix so many problems for us on this defense at MLB" is a HoF guy. Schobert's the only dude I've seen who fits who isn't someone like Keuchly or Wagner who are possible first ballot dudes.

It just seems the 2nd tier of 'really good MLBs' is damn near barren right now. They're either elite or they're crap.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 10:23 AM 11-25-2019
Originally Posted by O.city:
I dunno that he'd be one to have a weight problem, he's always been jacked and never really struggled with weight before.

He's not a great fit, but I think he'd help the offense as they need some power implemented. He hasn't been a good pass catcher, but has he really been asked to be?
You're right - I had his weight issues tangled up with Eddie Lacy's. So scratch that particular complaint. You're probably right, weight may not be an issue.

But he DOES run super-upright and is a tall dude to begin with. He takes a lot of body blows.
[Reply]
O.city 10:26 AM 11-25-2019
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Dylan Moses make it to us in your world?

I very much doubt that he does because teams seem to dock guys maybe 5-10 spots for injuries like that if they're considered premier talents. So if he was maybe a top 10 pick before the injury, you figure late teens after. And if he tests well, he'll lose hardly any ground at all.

And with Bush and White both struggling this year (Bush came out on fire but has fallen off over the last several weeks) it seems like it's just !@#$ing hard to play MLB in this league right now.

Maybe we didn't understand just how friggen hard it is to find someone like Derrick Johnson. I mean everyone else we talk about when we say "X would fix so many problems for us on this defense at MLB" is a HoF guy. Schobert's the only dude I've seen who fits who isn't someone like Keuchly or Wagner who are possible first ballot dudes.

It just seems the 2nd tier of 'really good MLBs' is damn near barren right now. They're either elite or they're crap.
RunKc brought it up, but Breeland Speaks over Fred Warner is tough to swallow.
[Reply]
O.city 10:27 AM 11-25-2019
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
You're right - I had his weight issues tangled up with Eddie Lacy's. So scratch that particular complaint. You're probably right, weight may not be an issue.

But he DOES run super-upright and is a tall dude to begin with. He takes a lot of body blows.
He's definitely an upright runner, but damn he is tough to tackle.

Like I said, I think when the Jets cut Leveon he ends up here in Kc.
[Reply]
Toad 10:48 AM 11-25-2019
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Dylan Moses make it to us in your world?

I very much doubt that he does because teams seem to dock guys maybe 5-10 spots for injuries like that if they're considered premier talents. So if he was maybe a top 10 pick before the injury, you figure late teens after. And if he tests well, he'll lose hardly any ground at all.

And with Bush and White both struggling this year (Bush came out on fire but has fallen off over the last several weeks) it seems like it's just !@#$ing hard to play MLB in this league right now.

Maybe we didn't understand just how friggen hard it is to find someone like Derrick Johnson. I mean everyone else we talk about when we say "X would fix so many problems for us on this defense at MLB" is a HoF guy. Schobert's the only dude I've seen who fits who isn't someone like Keuchly or Wagner who are possible first ballot dudes.

It just seems the 2nd tier of 'really good MLBs' is damn near barren right now. They're either elite or they're crap.
Moses dropping to KC would be good, but Schobert would be ideal in that he would hit the ground running as a true QB of the defense.

Here is a hair brained idea: player (and potential picks) tag and trade swap of CJones for Schobert.
[Reply]
The Franchise 11:42 AM 11-25-2019
Originally Posted by O.city:
RunKc brought it up, but Breeland Speaks over Fred Warner is tough to swallow.
Yeah and it happens to every team. There are other fan boards out there taking about taking player A over Kelce. I donít get the need to whine about it. There is no team out there that hits on every pick.
[Reply]
O.city 11:48 AM 11-25-2019
Originally Posted by The Franchise:
Yeah and it happens to every team. There are other fan boards out there taking about taking player A over Kelce. I donít get the need to whine about it. There is no team out there that hits on every pick.
Yeah, for sure. It's all a crap shoot.

It just sucks double the amount cause Speaks sucks.
[Reply]
The Franchise 12:02 PM 11-25-2019
Originally Posted by O.city:
Yeah, for sure. It's all a crap shoot.

It just sucks double the amount cause Speaks sucks.
It does but no one gets to talk shit if they werenít banging the table for someone like Warner.

Case in point. DJ and I were yelling for us to draft Kamara.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 12:27 PM 11-25-2019
Originally Posted by O.city:
RunKc brought it up, but Breeland Speaks over Fred Warner is tough to swallow.
I've mentioned Warner as the kind of guy we should've stumbled onto at least once over the last decade if we had just TRIED.

The problem is how little effort we've put into the off-ball linebacker spot. The team post-Carl has treated ILB/MLB like Carl treated QBs. And to nobody's surprise, it's not going well.
[Reply]
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