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Saccopoo Memorial Draft Forum>Cap Space for 2020
The Franchise 03:29 PM 11-12-2019
Here are some cap figures for next year.

Current cap space to be rolled over to 2020 - $21 million
Current cap space projected for 2020 - $1.6 million

People who should be cut after this season. Their replacement in quotes.

Sammy Watkins (Pringle/Hardman) - $14 million cap savings
LDT (Wylie/Rankin) - $5 million cap savings
Daniel Sorenson (literally anybody or Watts) - $3.75 million cap savings
Cameron Erving (literally anybody) - $3.25 million cap savings
Damien Williams (Thompson) - $2.3 million cap savings
Dustin Colquitt (It's a punter...come on) - $1.35 million cap savings

That's 6 cuts that we should have no problem finding a replacement for.

Projected cap space for 2020 after cuts - $31 million

We could add more by making Anthony Hitchens a June 1st cut. That would put his dead cap space in 2020 at
$4.2 million and his cap savings at $8.5 million. It would only save us roughly $2 million in 2021 and then
$11 million in 2022. I think he's overpaid but a decent #2 LB.

So, if we roll over the cap space from this year, and with the 6 cuts, we should be at $52 million in
cap space.

We're obviously going to need that cap space for Mahomes but we will only have 2 CBs under contract
(Ward and Fenton). We also will have 4 DEs under contract (Clark, Okafor, KPass and Speaks). I think
some of that cap space should be to bring Ogbah back if it isn't a huge amount of money.
[Reply]
BryanBusby 04:13 PM 11-12-2019
Can count on 15+ of that space disappearing for incentive payouts from 2019 and the 2020 rookie class.

Don't think Ldt is getting released yet.

Without a new CBA, June 1st cutting Hitchens won't be possible.

They're probably looking at 20 in space without even doing anything with Chris Jones as of yet and that's without even approaching the subject of a Pat extension. Thank god this next draft class will have more corners because we can't afford to buy one.
[Reply]
The Franchise 04:26 PM 11-12-2019
Where are you getting $15 million in incentives?
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 04:31 PM 11-12-2019
Yeah, here's my long-ass review on that from a different thread:

Spoiler!


We're essentially seeing the same thing.

There's not a lot of wiggle on this roster for next season at all. At best you're looking a a 40 man roster w/ $50 million in cap space and holes EVERYWHERE. And no Chris Jones.

The 'work' Veach has done the last 2 offseasons has landed this team directly in a shitty cap situation and has yielded next to no positive returns. When Mathieu at about 40% more than you'd have needed to pay him a year prior is the BEST outcome of your recent ventures into big-money deals, you really need to reconsider your approach.

Because Mathieu isn't even going to live up to his deal, let alone the other guys we've brought in.
[Reply]
RunKC 04:49 PM 11-12-2019
Veach’s offseason acquisitions were fine if you take out the 2 big deals. Actually HB isn’t bad considering he’s here 2 years and gets 1 big cap hit year.

Veach dug himself a hole but has pulled somewhat out of it with a contributing draft class with upside+acquisitions. More of that will make us just fine.

Trade Sammy for a 3rd (or 4th, whatever you can get), trade Jones for at least a 2nd and use Jones projected money to extend lower cost players.

Ogbah is absolutely a possibility to keep. He shouldn’t cost much now with his injury. Ward should not cost much. See if you can nab a corner like Chris Harris Jr. (who is still a plus player) for a fair price.

Then start swinging away in the draft. For a LB, RB and lineman. Use as many mid rd picks on linemen as you can. You never know if a Chase Winovich or Charles Omenihu is your pick.

Time to switch to the Seattle/Indy model
[Reply]
BryanBusby 05:08 PM 11-12-2019
Originally Posted by The Franchise:
Where are you getting $15 million in incentives?
Originally Posted by BryanBusby:
Can count on 15+ of that space disappearing for incentive payouts from 2019 and the 2020 rookie class.
The draft class and incentives from 2019 will probably take away 15m in space.

Basically I'm not anticipating a Pat extension for another year and Chris Jones is probably getting the tag and traded.

They will have some space to add, but they will be basement bargain shopping.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 05:25 PM 11-12-2019
Originally Posted by RunKC:
Veach’s offseason acquisitions were fine if you take out the 2 big deals. Actually HB isn’t bad considering he’s here 2 years and gets 1 big cap hit year.

Veach dug himself a hole but has pulled somewhat out of it with a contributing draft class with upside+acquisitions. More of that will make us just fine.

Trade Sammy for a 3rd (or 4th, whatever you can get), trade Jones for at least a 2nd and use Jones projected money to extend lower cost players.

Ogbah is absolutely a possibility to keep. He shouldn’t cost much now with his injury. Ward should not cost much. See if you can nab a corner like Chris Harris Jr. (who is still a plus player) for a fair price.

Then start swinging away in the draft. For a LB, RB and lineman. Use as many mid rd picks on linemen as you can. You never know if a Chase Winovich or Charles Omenihu is your pick.

Time to switch to the Seattle/Indy model
Apart from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the rest of the play?

His major misses the last 2 years have been massive parts of the storyline in the 2019 season as well as the single biggest impediments to improvement in 2020.

Clark, Mathieu, Watkins and Hitchens (presuming Watkins is cut) will account for better than 1/4 of our salary cap next season. It's a full 1/3 if you toss Okafor in there.

I'm sorry, but you cannot hand-waive that and say "yeah, but Ogbah!"

He's done a lot more harm than good.
[Reply]
RunKC 05:51 PM 11-12-2019
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Apart from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the rest of the play?

His major misses the last 2 years have been massive parts of the storyline in the 2019 season as well as the single biggest impediments to improvement in 2020.

Clark, Mathieu, Watkins and Hitchens (presuming Watkins is cut) will account for better than 1/4 of our salary cap next season. It's a full 1/3 if you toss Okafor in there.

I'm sorry, but you cannot hand-waive that and say "yeah, but Ogbah!"

He's done a lot more harm than good.
It doesn’t matter what money you shell out If you are getting cheap talent on rookie contracts.

Watkins and Clark were major problems but Ogbah and Hardman have made that equal with cheap productivity we were supposed to see from Clark and Watkins.

Veach needs to keep finding these type of guys and stop shelling out huge money to players not named Patrick Mahomes.
[Reply]
Hoover 08:59 PM 11-12-2019
I love it when people want to save 5M by cutting an Olineman only for us to have to turnaround and spend at least that amount on a competent replacement.
[Reply]
The Franchise 11:04 PM 11-12-2019
Originally Posted by Hoover:
I love it when people want to save 5M by cutting an Olineman only for us to have to turnaround and spend at least that amount on a competent replacement.
You have Rankin and Wylie....plus I’m sure you could bring Wisnewski on the cheap.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 09:14 AM 11-13-2019
Originally Posted by RunKC:
It doesn’t matter what money you shell out If you are getting cheap talent on rookie contracts.

Watkins and Clark were major problems but Ogbah and Hardman have made that equal with cheap productivity we were supposed to see from Clark and Watkins.

Veach needs to keep finding these type of guys and stop shelling out huge money to players not named Patrick Mahomes.
You think Ogbah and Hardman have given us DPOY and #1 WR output this year?

Because that's what we're paying for in Clark and Watkins, man.

Hardman's given us a credible gadget player and Ogbah has offset the mediocre/bad Okafor deal. Oh, and Ogbah's not even under CONTRACT for next season and that's what we're talking about right now - the damage he's done to next year's cap. Ogbah doesn't fit in that calculous right now (and will cost a lot more if/when he does) and Okafor's number goes up, making it even more likely that Ogbah simply becomes his replacement - not Clark's.

But Veach's ledger is still firmly in the red on those deals. Besides, to be a SB team you need contributions from cheap players AND representative performance from your expensive guys.

Even if they 'offset' (and they haven't) - that's still just a recipe for a 10 win squad.
[Reply]
The Franchise 10:57 AM 11-13-2019
Watkins is gone in 2020.
If there is a new CBA....you can June 1st cut Hitchens in 2020.
And you can June 1st cut Clark in 2021.

The dead cap hits suck but at least they’re gone. Although if all three of those happen....it won’t be Veach making those decisions.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 11:05 AM 11-13-2019
Originally Posted by The Franchise:
Watkins is gone in 2020.
If there is a new CBA....you can June 1st cut Hitchens in 2020.
And you can June 1st cut Clark in 2021.

The dead cap hits suck but at least they’re gone. Although if all three of those happen....it won’t be Veach making those decisions.
I don't think you can June 1 Clark in 2021, not based on what I've read.

From what I've seen, his 2021 salary is fully guaranteed on the 3rd day of the league year in 2020. So in that case you're paying him $18.5 million base either way in 2021 and see no cap savings.

Unless you just rip the band-aid off and cut his ass this offseason. But if you do that, you fire Veach at the same time and frankly with the $38 million in dead money it creates, I don't think it's even possible.

Veach fucked that acquisition up so badly. What the hell was he doing effectively guaranteeing 3 years/$63 million to this goddamn guy?

The only hope I have is that the contract sites have it wrong and the 2021 salary doesn't guarantee until the 3rd day of 2021. If they really created a contract that made him impossible to cut in 2020 AND guaranteed his salary for 2021 within that same 2020 window...Jesus.

What an absolute idiot.
[Reply]
BryanBusby 11:47 AM 11-13-2019
Originally Posted by Hoover:
I love it when people want to save 5M by cutting an Olineman only for us to have to turnaround and spend at least that amount on a competent replacement.
That goes without saying that trying to replace multiple starters at once usually leads to problems with the whole unit.

I think they are ok at the tackle spots, liked what I saw from Rankin and think he should get a real crack at the starting LG spot in 2020 and Ldt is fine when he isn't a broke dick. I think if I were going to make a change on the line, it would be at Center.
[Reply]
RunKC 11:53 PM 11-13-2019
Ideally..

Trade Sammy for a 3rd. Use said 3rd on a WR

I started scouting in 2003. This upcoming WR class is the best I've ever seen.

— Daniel Jeremiah (@MoveTheSticks) November 13, 2019

[Reply]
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