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The Lounge>Frank Clark fucking sucks
RealSNR 02:33 PM 09-15-2019
Guy has done NOTHING in two games. Barely any pressures to speak of against trash OTs.

Yeah, I'm in bitchy gameday mode. Don't care. I'm tired of paying out the ass for defensive players who don't make plays.

At least Justin Houston could dominate against bad teams after we paid him.
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J Diddy 08:30 PM 09-15-2019
[QUOTE=pugsnotdrugs19;14450990]As a whole, I think fans are too ate up with sacks. Theyíre awesome, donít get me wrong, but they donít correlate to great team defense nearly as much as many seem to believe.

See Chiefs last year for reference.[/QUOTE]

Absolutely this.
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FlorentinePogen 08:35 PM 09-15-2019
Originally Posted by dlphg9:
How offended some of you get over any type of criticism blows my mind. I can only imagine how big of pussies some of you must be in the real world by your reactions to criticism of a football player.
I think most people just think it's foolish to shit yourself over two games worth of performance from a player on a new team and new system. No need to call people pussies for not playing along with the unnecessary drama.
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J Diddy 08:37 PM 09-15-2019
Originally Posted by smithandrew051:
Depends.

Maybe the first round pick would be better than Clark, but we donít know for sure.

I donít trust Houston or Ford to stay healthy and theyíre both expensive.
Not to mention not leaders, liability in coverage and against the run and incredibly inconsistent.

Them shits can kick bricks. Houston can come back and sign a one day contract to retire as a chief. Ford can suck a fat sausage. We were one dumb fuckers arm away from reaching the promised land.
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rabblerouser 08:51 PM 09-15-2019
Originally Posted by J Diddy:
Not to mention not leaders, liability in coverage and against the run and incredibly inconsistent.

Them shits can kick bricks. Houston can come back and sign a one day contract to retire as a chief. Ford can suck a fat sausage. We were one dumb ****ers arm away from reaching the promised land.
All of this.
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Megatron96 08:54 PM 09-15-2019
So I just re-watched the first three quarters of the game, just the Chiefs' defensive snaps. Clark was doubled nearly every single down, which gave other guys on our DL several 1v1 opportunities. I noticed that Chris Jones was doubled most of the time as well. This fits with what we know about Gruden; he wants to take our best defensive players out of the game as much as possible.

Based on how Clark played I'm pretty sure that Spags knew that Clark was going to be a primary focus of the Raiders' OL.

In spite of this attention, Clark came off the snap hot throughout the game; I don't think he took any plays off when he was on the field.

He also managed to make a TFL, a tackle for a one yard gain (if he missed it that one probably would've gone for at least a first down), several QB pressures that forced Carr out of the pocket (exactly what we want), a couple tackles on their TEs that might've gone for big gains if Dee Ford had been out there.

Unfortunately, except for the TFL, he didn't have any splash plays. What he did do was play smart team football, drew a lot of attention to himself and helped everyone else on the DL make plays.

Most importantly, I didn't see him make any big mistakes. No lining up offsides, no encroachments, off-sides, losing his assignments, etc.

I really liked how he drove down on some of those running plays and forced the RB back into the middle. He played contain just about as well as anyone can play it.

I know some people are going to be pissed that Clark got a big contract and he didn't snatch Carr's head off every other passing play, but that's not realistic. The Raiders knew coming into the game who Frank Clark was, and they obviously knew exactly where he was on the field every snap. But all that extra attention helped our DL and our secondary at times. Bottom line, our defense has only allowed a couple dozen points in two games, and only allowed one big running play.

And I don't think Clark is in his best game shape yet. He's going to be fine, IMO. He's making our defensive line better, better at tackling, better at containment, and better against the run.

I'm starting to believe that the Ravens will have a hard time getting those big running plays against us next week.
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Prison Bitch 09:07 PM 09-15-2019
This fits with what we know about Gruden; he wants to take our best defensive players out of the game as much as possible.



Do other coaches not?
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Megatron96 09:21 PM 09-15-2019
Originally Posted by Prison Bitch:
This fits with what we know about Gruden; he wants to take our best defensive players out of the game as much as possible.



Do other coaches not?
Some don't. Some seem to depend on their scheme to handle things, even when there's a star player on the field.

But more often it seems like some coaches/units lose track of the guy(s) they're supposed to be doubling/paying extra attention to. Clark was doubled nearly every down, so I surmise that the Raiders were well aware of his presence whenever he was on the field.

John Fox. I remember in the Super Bowl (I think it was the SB, might've been the NFCCG), he tried to rely on his offensive scheme to handle the pass rushers and it didn't work. The defense got to his QB and RB pretty consistently throughout the game. I remember the game because I told my buddy that Fox would have to make the adjustment coming out for the second half. He didn't. We were both yelling at the TV, "you need to chip that guy!"
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RealSNR 10:53 PM 09-15-2019
So for what it's worth, I do need to clarify and walk back a couple things about what I wrote. I was far too many beers into that point of the game, and yes, I realize it was only the end of the 1st quarter. No, it's not an excuse, and yes, I just called it a "walk back." This is definitely a thread I wouldn't normally start, and I wish I hadn't, because I do look like a dumbass. If I had to bitch about a player (which I sometimes do) I'd find the dumbass thread somebody else started and write my opinion in that thread.

What spurned my anger? Well, yeah, at that point in the game the defense WAS playing like trash. I started this thread when I saw Carr with a 100% clean pocket on consecutive plays during the Raiders' only TD drive in the first quarter. The defense had been doing its usual "run defense looks better, but QBs all complete ridiculous percentage of their passes against us" routine from last game.

That being said.....

1. Seattle gouged us on this trade. It fucking sucked when it happened, and it still fucking sucks. I 100% believe Clark is way better than Ford, but I don't think he's a full 1st round pick better than Ford. Whatever, though. It shouldn't matter what I think about what Clark is worth. It matters what Veach and Spags think Clark is worth. If they have to slightly overpay to get the player that matters to them and fits in best, so be it. I didn't have the info and knowledge of the player and the person that Veach had. That's why he's a GM and I'm just a fan.

2. HOWEVER, it does still suck to spend that AND pay him the contract we did and still have to wait for a bit until other players on defense improve and get used to the scheme so that more attention is placed on them and Clark can get more opportunities to make plays. No, I'm not talking about just sacks, either. I simply mean timely tackles at the line of scrimmage. Good block shedding. QB pressures just as much as QB sacks. Tackles for loss.

No, the stories of great defensive players aren't always told with stats, but again... being a Chiefs fan and seeing all the big money contracts we've given to defensive guys only to have them shit their pants with it... well, when you're several beers in and the defense looks like they did in the 1st quarter and Carr has all fucking day to throw and has no problems whatsoever completing his passes to steamy turds like Tyrell Williams and Hunter Renfrow, and the guy you spent money on hasn't produced so much as a single QB hurry or a bead of sweat to run down Carr's forehead, and you're losing 10-0 to the fucking Raiders....

Yeah, we've all been there. I just gave in to the demon of dumbassery, okay?
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PAChiefsGuy 11:18 PM 09-15-2019
It's still early. A lot of football left to be played. He is at least drawing double teams like others have said.
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Danguardace 03:41 AM 09-16-2019
Only two games in so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, my main concern is the money we are paying him could cost us Chris Jones.
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Nickhead 03:55 AM 09-16-2019
I must say, you have become a whingin' lil bitch lately. But this is merely an observation :-)
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Aspengc8 05:05 AM 09-16-2019
Originally Posted by Megatron96:
So I just re-watched the first three quarters of the game, just the Chiefs' defensive snaps. Clark was doubled nearly every single down, which gave other guys on our DL several 1v1 opportunities. I noticed that Chris Jones was doubled most of the time as well. This fits with what we know about Gruden; he wants to take our best defensive players out of the game as much as possible.

Based on how Clark played I'm pretty sure that Spags knew that Clark was going to be a primary focus of the Raiders' OL.

In spite of this attention, Clark came off the snap hot throughout the game; I don't think he took any plays off when he was on the field.

He also managed to make a TFL, a tackle for a one yard gain (if he missed it that one probably would've gone for at least a first down), several QB pressures that forced Carr out of the pocket (exactly what we want), a couple tackles on their TEs that might've gone for big gains if Dee Ford had been out there.

Unfortunately, except for the TFL, he didn't have any splash plays. What he did do was play smart team football, drew a lot of attention to himself and helped everyone else on the DL make plays.

Most importantly, I didn't see him make any big mistakes. No lining up offsides, no encroachments, off-sides, losing his assignments, etc.

I really liked how he drove down on some of those running plays and forced the RB back into the middle. He played contain just about as well as anyone can play it.

I know some people are going to be pissed that Clark got a big contract and he didn't snatch Carr's head off every other passing play, but that's not realistic. The Raiders knew coming into the game who Frank Clark was, and they obviously knew exactly where he was on the field every snap. But all that extra attention helped our DL and our secondary at times. Bottom line, our defense has only allowed a couple dozen points in two games, and only allowed one big running play.

And I don't think Clark is in his best game shape yet. He's going to be fine, IMO. He's making our defensive line better, better at tackling, better at containment, and better against the run.

I'm starting to believe that the Ravens will have a hard time getting those big running plays against us next week.
This is exactly what happened week 1 as well. Dude is getting chipped or doubled almost every pass play except the 3 step drop stuff. It's letting everyone else get 1v1 wins.
[Reply]
rabblerouser 05:29 AM 09-16-2019
Originally Posted by Nickhead:
I must say, you have become a whingin' lil bitch lately. But this is merely an observation :-)

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tredadda 05:42 AM 09-16-2019
Originally Posted by dlphg9:
We'd be better off with just the 1st rounder. Justin Houston or Dee Ford would be icing on the cake.
Possibly but thatís assuming we hit on our first rounder. Dee Ford is anything but icing. Heís a one dimensional player whoís lack of discipline in regards to what side of the ball to line up on cost us a trip to the SB.
[Reply]
tredadda 05:51 AM 09-16-2019
Originally Posted by RealSNR:
So for what it's worth, I do need to clarify and walk back a couple things about what I wrote. I was far too many beers into that point of the game, and yes, I realize it was only the end of the 1st quarter. No, it's not an excuse, and yes, I just called it a "walk back." This is definitely a thread I wouldn't normally start, and I wish I hadn't, because I do look like a dumbass. If I had to bitch about a player (which I sometimes do) I'd find the dumbass thread somebody else started and write my opinion in that thread.

What spurned my anger? Well, yeah, at that point in the game the defense WAS playing like trash. I started this thread when I saw Carr with a 100% clean pocket on consecutive plays during the Raiders' only TD drive in the first quarter. The defense had been doing its usual "run defense looks better, but QBs all complete ridiculous percentage of their passes against us" routine from last game.

That being said.....

1. Seattle gouged us on this trade. It fucking sucked when it happened, and it still fucking sucks. I 100% believe Clark is way better than Ford, but I don't think he's a full 1st round pick better than Ford. Whatever, though. It shouldn't matter what I think about what Clark is worth. It matters what Veach and Spags think Clark is worth. If they have to slightly overpay to get the player that matters to them and fits in best, so be it. I didn't have the info and knowledge of the player and the person that Veach had. That's why he's a GM and I'm just a fan.

2. HOWEVER, it does still suck to spend that AND pay him the contract we did and still have to wait for a bit until other players on defense improve and get used to the scheme so that more attention is placed on them and Clark can get more opportunities to make plays. No, I'm not talking about just sacks, either. I simply mean timely tackles at the line of scrimmage. Good block shedding. QB pressures just as much as QB sacks. Tackles for loss.

No, the stories of great defensive players aren't always told with stats, but again... being a Chiefs fan and seeing all the big money contracts we've given to defensive guys only to have them shit their pants with it... well, when you're several beers in and the defense looks like they did in the 1st quarter and Carr has all fucking day to throw and has no problems whatsoever completing his passes to steamy turds like Tyrell Williams and Hunter Renfrow, and the guy you spent money on hasn't produced so much as a single QB hurry or a bead of sweat to run down Carr's forehead, and you're losing 10-0 to the fucking Raiders....

Yeah, we've all been there. I just gave in to the demon of dumbassery, okay?
I think you are overvaluing our 1st rounder last year. Had it been a top 10 pick you would have a solid argument. Where the Chiefs drafted it was essentially a high 2nd rounder. Not bad for a player who up to that point had proven himself in the league.
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