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Nzoner's Game Room>***NON-POLITICAL COVID-19 Discussion Thread***
JakeF 10:28 PM 02-26-2020
A couple of reminders...

Originally Posted by Bwana:
Once again, don't come in this thread with some kind of political agenda, or you will be shown the door. If you want to go that route, there is a thread about this in DC.
Originally Posted by Dartgod:
People, there is a lot of good information in this thread, let's try to keep the petty bickering to a minimum.

We all have varying opinions about the impact of this, the numbers, etc. We will all never agree with each other. But we can all keep it civil.

Thanks!

Click here for the original OP:

Spoiler!

[Reply]
DJ's left nut 10:47 AM 04-03-2020
Originally Posted by SAUTO:
Lol I think I’ll decline trying to find that in here.

But IMO that’s where the logjam will happen. That’s the real numbers they need to be worried about.
Sure, but admissions are going to be a fair proxy, they may just not work at the same timeline.

If you're seeing 'doubling rates' that are FAR below projection on admissions, it stands to reason that you'd see similar results in ICU cases, even if they're a bit of a lagging indicator on overall admissions.

I also can't quite figure out if Cuomo is ultimately using net figures or gross figures. In other words, the daily rates since April 1 have suggested as many admissions as discharges.

But in the meantime, from April 1 to now total hospitalized has actually climbed by about 2,500. So there's a disconnect there. He may be using gross figures for discharges and net figures for admissions.

But again, it's gone up by 2,500 over a span where it was supposed to go up by 10,000. Based on a model that was updated ON April 1.

And I understand that ICU growth is what concerns you, as it should. But it's easier to pull a vent out of storage or ship it in from elsewhere (and Cuomo said yesterday morning they still have plenty that haven't been deployed) than it is to build a new field hospital. ICU utilization is important for sure, but don't sleep on positive developments in total capacity. Especially as it relates to the 'ancillary' deaths some have been concerned about - those deaths of non-COVID cases that come as a result of COVID cases overwhelming the system.

If we maintain relatively reasonable growth rates on beds, we'll also keep those figures palatable.
[Reply]
O.city 10:47 AM 04-03-2020
Originally Posted by F150:
may have been posted, sorry if so...

Israeli scientists are on the cusp of developing the first vaccine against the novel coronavirus, according to Science and Technology Minister Ofir Akunis. If all goes as planned, the vaccine could be ready within a few weeks and available in 90 days, according to a release.

“Congratulations to MIGAL [The Galilee Research Institute] on this exciting breakthrough,” Akunis said. “I am confident there will be further rapid progress, enabling us to provide a needed response to the grave global COVID-19 threat,” Akunis said, referring to the disease caused by the novel coronavirus.



For the past four years, a team of MIGAL scientists has been developing a vaccine against infectious bronchitis virus (IBV), which causes a bronchial disease affecting poultry. The effectiveness of the vaccine has been proven in preclinical trials carried out at the Veterinary Institute.

MIGAL is located in the Galilee.

“Our basic concept was to develop the technology and not specifically a vaccine for this kind or that kind of virus,” said Dr. Chen Katz, MIGAL’s biotechnology group leader. “The scientific framework for the vaccine is based on a new protein expression vector, which forms and secretes a chimeric soluble protein that delivers the viral antigen into mucosal tissues by self-activated endocytosis, causing the body to form antibodies against the virus.”

Endocytosis is a cellular process in which substances are brought into a cell by surrounding the material with cell membrane, forming a vesicle containing the ingested material.
In preclinical trials, the team demonstrated that the oral vaccination induces high levels of specific anti-IBV antibodies, Katz said.

“Let’s call it pure luck,” he said. “We decided to choose coronavirus as a model for our system just as a proof of concept for our technology.”

But after scientists sequenced the DNA of the novel coronavirus causing the current worldwide outbreak, the MIGAL researchers examined it and found that the poultry coronavirus has high genetic similarity to the human one, and that it uses the same infection mechanism, which increases the likelihood of achieving an effective human vaccine in a very short period of time, Katz said.

“All we need to do is adjust the system to the new sequence,” he said. “We are in the middle of this process, and hopefully in a few weeks we will have the vaccine in our hands. Yes, in a few weeks, if it all works, we would have a vaccine to prevent coronavirus.”

MIGAL would be responsible for developing the new vaccine, but it would then have to go through a regulatory process, including clinical trials and large-scale production, Katz said.
Akunis said he has instructed his ministry’s director-general to fast-track all approval processes with the goal of bringing the human vaccine to market as quickly as possible.
“Given the urgent global need for a human coronavirus vaccine, we are doing everything we can to accelerate development,” MIGAL CEO David Zigdon said. The vaccine could “achieve safety approval in 90 days,” he said.

It will be an oral vaccine, making it particularly accessible to the general public, Zigdon said.
“We are currently in intensive discussions with potential partners that can help accelerate the in-human trials phase and expedite completion of final-product development and regulatory activities,” he said.

https://www.jpost.com/HEALTH-SCIENCE...vaccine-619101
Interesting

I’m skeptical but we shall see
[Reply]
petegz28 10:50 AM 04-03-2020
Originally Posted by Donger:
Masks don't do jack shit...
For preventing you from getting it? They don't. Unless it covers your entire face and I would argue even your ears.
[Reply]
Donger 10:51 AM 04-03-2020
Originally Posted by petegz28:
For preventing you from getting it? They don't. Unless it covers your entire face and I would argue even your ears.
Sure they do. Even a simple bandana can prevent droplet spread.
[Reply]
'Hamas' Jenkins 10:52 AM 04-03-2020
Originally Posted by AustinChief:
Nice try. Standard douchebag Hamas walk back. So, your post calling me a liar has now become a post saying that although it is entirely possible that a bad flu season can have a fatality rate in the .16% range it isn't likely.





You just can't help being a total cunt can you?
You said bad flu seasons normally do. They don't unless you cook the books.

There's a reason why medical literature reports risk ratios and odds ratios with a single number first instead of just the upper bound of a confidence interval.

If your OR of contracting SARS when wearing a mask is 0.27 with a CI of 0.21-0.34, the OR is not 0.34. It's 0.27.

This is why we have biostats.
[Reply]
O.city 10:55 AM 04-03-2020
https://twitter.com/squawkcnbc/statu...095769601?s=21
[Reply]
'Hamas' Jenkins 10:57 AM 04-03-2020
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Sure, but admissions are going to be a fair proxy, they may just not work at the same timeline.

If you're seeing 'doubling rates' that are FAR below projection on admissions, it stands to reason that you'd see similar results in ICU cases, even if they're a bit of a lagging indicator on overall admissions.

I also can't quite figure out if Cuomo is ultimately using net figures or gross figures. In other words, the daily rates since April 1 have suggested as many admissions as discharges.

But in the meantime, from April 1 to now total hospitalized has actually climbed by about 2,500. So there's a disconnect there. He may be using gross figures for discharges and net figures for admissions.

But again, it's gone up by 2,500 over a span where it was supposed to go up by 10,000. Based on a model that was updated ON April 1.

And I understand that ICU growth is what concerns you, as it should. But it's easier to pull a vent out of storage or ship it in from elsewhere (and Cuomo said yesterday morning they still have plenty that haven't been deployed) than it is to build a new field hospital. ICU utilization is important for sure, but don't sleep on positive developments in total capacity. Especially as it relates to the 'ancillary' deaths some have been concerned about - those deaths of non-COVID cases that come as a result of COVID cases overwhelming the system.

If we maintain relatively reasonable growth rates on beds, we'll also keep those figures palatable.
Didn't Cuomo also say they had six days of vents left at their current burn rate?
[Reply]
Monticore 11:00 AM 04-03-2020
Originally Posted by Donger:
Sure they do. Even a simple bandana can prevent droplet spread.
If your bandana gets wet from your breathing and the outside of your mask gets contaminated from the virus by accidentally touching it with a dirty hand would it be possible for said virus to invade that now damp area of the mask and potentially contaminate the air your are now breathing?

I can drink a beer through a bandana if I try hard enough.
[Reply]
AustinChief 11:01 AM 04-03-2020
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins:
You said bad flu seasons normally do.
No I did not. Please show me that quote? I said A bad flu season, which is pretty obvious what is meant in that statement. Covid-19's under 50 figure is comparable to what is certainly possible (admitted by you) in a bad flu season like we had in 2017-2018. The context of the post was in regards to restrictions/shutdown/etc. Do you think we were on the verge of shutting down most of the US because of the flu in 2017-2018? (hint: we were not)

No, you took what you saw as an opportunity to be a piece of shit and ran with it. Unfortunately for you, my post was pretty clear and factually correct or at the very least in the reasonably possible category which is all that was necessary to get the intended point across.
[Reply]
Donger 11:04 AM 04-03-2020
Originally Posted by Monticore:
If your bandana gets wet from your breathing and the outside of your mask gets contaminated from the virus by accidentally touching it with a dirty hand would it be possible for said virus to invade that now damp area of the mask and potentially contaminate the air your are now breathing?

I can drink a beer through a bandana if I try hard enough.
Yes. That's why I said can prevent. Would you agree that you can ingest a droplet full of the virus easier without a mask?
[Reply]
petegz28 11:04 AM 04-03-2020
Originally Posted by Donger:
Sure they do. Even a simple bandana can prevent droplet spread.
It's almost like you didn't read a fucking word I said. It will help prevent you from spreading it. But if it is in the air it is not going to prevent you from getting it unless your eyes are covered. It's almost like I said that and you just wanted to argue.
[Reply]
'Hamas' Jenkins 11:06 AM 04-03-2020
Originally Posted by AustinChief:
Yes it is true and it's already been posted in this thread. .16%
Ask and you shall receive

Originally Posted by AustinChief:
No I did not. Please show me that quote? I said A bad flu season, which is pretty obvious what is meant in that statement. Covid-19's under 50 figure is comparable to what is certainly possible (admitted by you) in a bad flu season like we had in 2017-2018. The context of the post was in regards to restrictions/shutdown/etc. Do you think we were on the verge of shutting down most of the US because of the flu in 2017-2018? (hint: we were not)

No, you took what you saw as an opportunity to be a piece of shit and ran with it. Unfortunately for you, my post was pretty clear and factually correct or at the very least in the reasonably possible category which is all that was necessary to get the intended point across.

[Reply]
SupDock 11:06 AM 04-03-2020
Originally Posted by AustinChief:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/30/healt...ate/index.html

So, the death rate among people under 40 is the same as the flu.
That's what you said. You didn't say "bad flu season"

If you had said the CFR for cases under 40 is similar to the overall CFR of very bad flu season, you wouldn't have had so many people disagreeing.

Shortly afterwards you changed that age to 50, and specified "bad flu season"
[Reply]
Donger 11:07 AM 04-03-2020
Originally Posted by petegz28:
It's almost like you didn't read a ****ing word I said. It will help prevent you from spreading it. But if it is in the air it is not going to prevent you from getting it unless your eyes are covered. It's almost like I said that and you just wanted to argue.
Sure I did. You originally said:

Masks don't do jack shit. Stop listening to the ****ing media.

Would you agree that you can ingest a droplet full of the virus easier without a mask? I'm well-aware that mouth and nose masks don't do anything to prevent transmission via the eyes.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 11:08 AM 04-03-2020
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins:
Didn't Cuomo also say they had six days of vents left at their current burn rate?
Hadn't heard that.

But haven't we also heard that NYC's peak was supposed to be in 6 or 7 days? IMHE model says 6. If you're concerned about resource scarcity and you manage to get that close...I'd say things worked out pretty nicely.

The point here isn't to clear these bars with room to spare. It's ideally to clear them WITHOUT it. And obviously there's a hope you can provide some spare materials in the interim.
[Reply]
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