Thing is, you're never "one guy away" unless you don't have an elite QB. Then you are.
I think a lot of Chiefs fans haven't adjusted.
When you look at how teams beat us when they do...Ramsey wouldn't have made a huge difference over the guys we have now.
The difference between good CB play and great CB play is not a huge gap.
We have weak spots in the lineup and most people can pick them out. I don't think a lot of y'all watch other teams much, or you'd realize that's par for the course in the NFL.
Injuries, Run defense and offensive line play have been the biggest problems this season. It's why we've lost games, why we can't run the ball effectively, and why Mahomes missed time.
We'll need to draft well, sign reasonably priced vets and roll with it from here on. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
Thing is, you're never "one guy away" unless you don't have an elite QB. Then you are.
I think a lot of Chiefs fans haven't adjusted.
When you look at how teams beat us when they do...Ramsey wouldn't have made a huge difference over the guys we have now.
The difference between good CB play and great CB play is not a huge gap.
We have weak spots in the lineup and most people can pick them out. I don't think a lot of y'all watch other teams much, or you'd realize that's par for the course in the NFL.
Injuries, Run defense and offensive line play have been the biggest problems this season. It's why we've lost games, why we can't run the ball effectively, and why Mahomes missed time.
We'll need to draft well, sign reasonably priced vets and roll with it from here on.
This just isn't true. The difference between a good CB like Charvarious Ward and a great CB like Stephon Gilmore might as well be night and day.
It's akin to the difference between a great WR like Tyreek and a good WR like Watkins. Losing Hill completely changes our offense and the way defenses are able to approach us. [Reply]
Originally Posted by ThaVirus:
This just isn't true. The difference between a good CB like Charvarious Ward and a great CB like Stephon Gilmore might as well be night and day.
It's akin to the difference between a great WR like Tyreek and a good WR like Watkins. Losing Hill completely changes our offense and the way defenses are able to approach us.
No, Tyreek's skillset is unique. There's a difference between 'excellent' and 'unique'. Tyreek can do things no other WR can do. The threat of those things changes the entire defensive approach.
In today's NFL, with the rules being what they are, the 'shutdown corner' is largely a myth. You're not really allowed to be. So the difference between a 'good' corner like Ward seems to be, and a 'great' corner like Gilmore is a couple of plays a game. Now maybe those are a couple of BIG plays, and maybe not. Would it be awesome to have a Gilmore level CB? Of course. Is it the difference between winning and losing? In any individual game it could be, but probably not statistically over the long haul.
You need to minimize weaknesses, and I think Belichick has shown that a roster of 'good' players with an elite QB can win handfulls of Superbowls, and they've done it with drastically different approaches.
we can argue about the importance of any one of a handful of positions, but it's pretty clear that elite QB play is the most important. Without that you're pissing in the wind.
I think any place you're receiving 'good' play, as in a plus performance game in and game out is not a place where upgrading is a need to win. It's the places where you're receiving sub-par play that need upgrading. The weaknesses. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
No, Tyreek's skillset is unique. There's a difference between 'excellent' and 'unique'. Tyreek can do things no other WR can do. The threat of those things changes the entire defensive approach.
In today's NFL, with the rules being what they are, the 'shutdown corner' is largely a myth. You're not really allowed to be. So the difference between a 'good' corner like Ward seems to be, and a 'great' corner like Gilmore is a couple of plays a game. Now maybe those are a couple of BIG plays, and maybe not. Would it be awesome to have a Gilmore level CB? Of course. Is it the difference between winning and losing? In any individual game it could be, but probably not statistically over the long haul..
Is being able to shadow the other team's best receiving threat with little-to-no safety help and still lock them down at an elite level not unique?
Stephon Gilmore and Tre White are shutdown corners in today's NFL so idk how you can say it's a myth. [Reply]
Originally Posted by FAX:
Are 1st rounders overrated?
Somebody do the math!!! I would, but it's Thanksgiving.
Happy Thanksgiving, everybody.
FAX THE THANKFUL
A great first rounder from the draft is worth two Jalen Ramsey's when you have to pay Mahomes. Or, do you know the problem with "proven" assets?
They've already proven it to someone else on the cheap and now you're the schlub with the checkbook, hoping your new toy doesn't go all "Comfy Clark" on your ass. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
No, Tyreek's skillset is unique. There's a difference between 'excellent' and 'unique'. Tyreek can do things no other WR can do. The threat of those things changes the entire defensive approach.
In today's NFL, with the rules being what they are, the 'shutdown corner' is largely a myth. You're not really allowed to be. So the difference between a 'good' corner like Ward seems to be, and a 'great' corner like Gilmore is a couple of plays a game. Now maybe those are a couple of BIG plays, and maybe not. Would it be awesome to have a Gilmore level CB? Of course. Is it the difference between winning and losing? In any individual game it could be, but probably not statistically over the long haul.
You need to minimize weaknesses, and I think Belichick has shown that a roster of 'good' players with an elite QB can win handfulls of Superbowls, and they've done it with drastically different approaches.
we can argue about the importance of any one of a handful of positions, but it's pretty clear that elite QB play is the most important. Without that you're pissing in the wind.
I think any place you're receiving 'good' play, as in a plus performance game in and game out is not a place where upgrading is a need to win. It's the places where you're receiving sub-par play that need upgrading. The weaknesses.
Shut down corners are not a myth, just not in large quantities. [Reply]
Originally Posted by ThaVirus:
Is being able to shadow the other team's best receiving threat with little-to-no safety help and still lock them down at an elite level not unique?
Stephon Gilmore and Tre White are shutdown corners in today's NFL so idk how you can say it's a myth.
No, I don't think they are. Not in a Darrell Green/Deion Sanders sort of way.
and from what I've seen, the Patriots often put Gilmore on your #2, bracketing your #1 with a CB and S. That's pretty smart really; a good CB should be able to handle your #2 WR.
What is 'lockdown at an elite level'? What does that mean? We're talking about this in a Jalen Ramsey thread. How 'shutdown' was he against us? With no Tyreek Hill, Watkins had 198 yards and 3 TD's.
No I don't think the difference between 'good' and 'great' given the current rules is worth mortgaging any future picks or massive salary. It's still awesome if you can draft and develop your own 'great' corners; I just don't think it's worth overspending unless you have a real talent problem there.
It's not Madden. You can't have elite talent everywhere. That's not to say it's not better to have great corner play; just that what we're debating is really how much is it worth to you to mortgage for it? And honestly, I think Ward is developing into a VERY good corner.
What we're discussing is the 'one guy away' theory; and if we were as bad in the secondary as last year, I'd say yeah, we should give up the picks and cap space for a Patrick Peterson level player. This season, I would say no, it's not a big point of weakness and so I don't think it's worth the price. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Hate:
A great first rounder from the draft is worth two Jalen Ramsey's when you have to pay Mahomes. Or, do you know the problem with "proven" assets?
They've already proven it to someone else on the cheap and now you're the schlub with the checkbook, hoping your new toy doesn't go all "Comfy Clark" on your ass.
Dude, are you intoxicated? Your posts are really odd. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
No, I don't think they are. Not in a Darrell Green/Deion Sanders sort of way.
and from what I've seen, the Patriots often put Gilmore on your #2, bracketing your #1 with a CB and S. That's pretty smart really; a good CB should be able to handle your #2 WR.
What is 'lockdown at an elite level'? What does that mean? We're talking about this in a Jalen Ramsey thread. How 'shutdown' was he against us? With no Tyreek Hill, Watkins had 198 yards and 3 TD's.
No I don't think the difference between 'good' and 'great' given the current rules is worth mortgaging any future picks or massive salary. It's still awesome if you can draft and develop your own 'great' corners; I just don't think it's worth overspending unless you have a real talent problem there.
It's not Madden. You can't have elite talent everywhere. That's not to say it's not better to have great corner play; just that what we're debating is really how much is it worth to you to mortgage for it? And honestly, I think Ward is developing into a VERY good corner.
What we're discussing is the 'one guy away' theory; and if we were as bad in the secondary as last year, I'd say yeah, we should give up the picks and cap space for a Patrick Peterson level player. This season, I would say no, it's not a big point of weakness and so I don't think it's worth the price.
Bro, you’re saying a BUNCH of shit. I don’t care to dissect it all.
You originally said the difference between a good CB and a great CB isn’t a huge gap. That’s fucking bullshit. [Reply]
Originally Posted by ThaVirus:
Bro, you’re saying a BUNCH of shit. I don’t care to dissect it all.
You originally said the difference between a good CB and a great CB isn’t a huge gap. That’s ****ing bullshit.
Yeah, I was explaining, even so much as to give you a direct example of a supposed shutdown corner in the post named after said 'shutdown corner'.
Sorry that was too hard for you to follow.
If a SHUTDOWN CORNER means a Sammy Watkins goes for 198 yards and 3 TD's, then yeah, I say it's not a big difference. Certainly not worth giving up #1 picks and a ton of cash.
