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Nzoner's Game Room>Deshaun Watson is not a top 10 QB
dlphg9 02:09 AM 10-27-2020
Deshaun Watson is constantly getting praised as one of the best young QBs. Hell before the season people were saying he was 2nd best behind Mahomes. I'm here to tell you that he's not even in the top 10.

Deshaun Watson did have a bad GM in B.O.B, but he wasn't that bad as a coach. He always had the Texans respectable, but what he did to that franchise as a GM is senile. That doesn't mean he has to be the scape goat for every time Watson makes a mistake or can't close out a game. Watson was one of/if not the main reason for the playoff loss to the Chiefs. No elite QB is going to allow an opponent to run away with a game after being up 24-0. Another scape goat Watson has is his O line. He is terrible in the pocket and is the main reason for his high sack rate.

He has had success in his past seasons and it seems to me that a lot of that success was due to DeAndre Hopkins ability to catch everything that was anywhere close to him. He made that team so much better and was more important than Watson. Just look at this year what has happened in Houston. Hopkins got traded and the team literally fell apart and Watson has been absolute trash. Now how is he trash when he's on pace for 4800 yards and 34 TDs? He's a god damn garbage time all star, but he struts around like he's playing like an all pro and that his team is trash.

He has sucked shit in the 1st quarter all year and is one of the main reasons why his team is always playing from behind. In the 1st quarter of games this year he is

27/46, 58.7% comp, 285 yards, 1 TD, 13 1st down passes. That's in 7 fucking games! Almost half a season and he's managed 1 passing TD and a measly 285 yds in the first quarter. Compare that to his 4th quarter stats when he can just throw it against a prevent defense when his team is down double digits. 50/74, 67.5% comp, 685 yds, 7 TDs, 2 Ints. These numbers would be elite and he'd be considered clutch if they'd would have won more than one game.

This is the score of all of his games this year going into the 4th quarter and a little of what transpires

KC - 24 - 7

Balt - 23 - 10

Pit - 20 - 21
Houston was up, but Watson threw an int during an 8 play 42 yd drive at the beginning of the 4th quarter and Pitt capitalized and scored the go ahead TD right after that. Watson gets the ball back down a TD, but he takes one of his patented sacks and goes 3 and out and never sees the ball again. With how great he's been in the 4th quarter this year and how elite he is you'd expect more than 45 yds and an int in the 4th, but he choked the game away.

Min - 24 - 16
Deshaun had a chance to tie the game, but couldn't punch it in when they had the ball with around a minute left 2nd down and 1 yard to go from the Minnesota 1. David Johnson tries to run it in and gets stuffed. Then on 3rd down Watson is running an option and gets scared of a big hit, so he tosses it to David and David doesn't catch it, but he recovers the fumble and it's a 4 yard loss. 4th and 5 gives Watson a chance to redeem himself, but he thinks DeAndre Hopkins is out there running a route and will bail out his shitty overthrown fade route. Not DeAndre does his best, but he can't overcome Watson's shit ball.

Jax - Houston's only win!

Ten -
Deshaun tries really hard, but for some dumb shit reason the Texans go up 7 with 1:53 left in the game and Romeo oh Romeo says "Hey Mr Clutch, go out there and get us 2 points, so this game is over" and Deshaun replies "no probs Romeo O'Brien, I mean Bill, I got this", but Mr. Clutch ain't so clutch and two point conv fails. Ten scores a TD, makes XP, gets ball in OT and drives down for a win.

GB - 28 - 7, but Deshaun tears that prevent up in the 4th and racks up those garbage time numbers to the tune of 100 yards and a TD. 72 and the TD of those yards came in one drive when it really mattered down 35 to 14 with 3:40 left in the game a 2 minute drive to make it a 2 score game. Real nail biter.

Deshaun fucking sucks. He ain't shit. He got paid and will continually get talked as if he's some elite QB on a team devoid of talent because B.O.B fucked the franchise. Watson is gonna hit free agency in a few years and get another huge deal because it's not his fault the team never gets above 8-8 again. He will be shitting the bed in the first year of his next deal and everyone will be wondering why Bill O' Brien and his offensive line are still preventing him from winning a game.

Eat shit DeBerg
[Reply]
DRM08 01:14 PM 10-30-2020
Originally Posted by Detoxing:
If you're setting the bar at "He's not Patrick Mahomes", that's a pretty damn unrealistic standard.
Not when their contracts are essentially the same thing for the same time period. Both being paid around $39M per year in the 4-year period of Deshaun's deal.
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ModSocks 01:18 PM 10-30-2020
Originally Posted by DRM08:
Not when their contracts are essentially the same thing for the same time period. Both being paid around $39M per year in the 4-year period of Deshaun's deal.
That's the nature of NFL contracts though. NFL contracts have never been about paying players based on their positional rank, ESPECIALLY with QB's.

It's always been "Next man up, next biggest contract", particularly with QB's.

There's going to be plenty of QB's making more than Mahomes as time goes on. Lets not forget that Mahomes was ridiculed for his "team friendly deal", mostly because of the contract length allegedly not allowing him to renegotiate a better deal a few years from now.

The complaint from national media pundits has been, "Oh so-and-so will make more money therefore Mahomes was stupid to make that deal".
[Reply]
DRM08 01:24 PM 10-30-2020
Originally Posted by Detoxing:
That's the nature of NFL contracts though. NFL contracts have never been about paying players based on their positional rank, ESPECIALLY with QB's.

It's always been "Next man up, next biggest contract", particularly with QB's.

There's going to be plenty of QB's making more than Mahomes as time goes on. Lets not forget that Mahomes was ridiculed for his "team friendly deal", mostly because of the contract length allegedly not allowing him to renegotiate a better deal a few years from now.

The complaint from national media pundits has been, "Oh so-and-so will make more money therefore Mahomes was stupid to make that deal".
I'm aware of all that. Still not unfair to hold Deshaun to a very high standard when he got paid top dollar in his contract.
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dlphg9 03:08 PM 10-30-2020
Originally Posted by Chitownchiefsfan:
I stopped reading when he said bob wasn't a bad head coach.
He wasn't a bad head coach. The Texans have 6 division titles and 4 of those came when BOB was head coach. He had 1 full season in which the Texans didn't win 9 or more games. I'm not saying he's great by any means, but he damn sure isn't terrible. I'd take him over Jon Gruden or Jeff Fischer. He's an average to maybe slightly above average HC. If he didn't get to ruin the team by being GM he'd still be there and the Texans would be in decent shape.
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htismaqe 03:12 PM 10-30-2020
Originally Posted by dlphg9:
He wasn't a bad head coach. The Texans have 6 division titles and 4 of those came when BOB was head coach. He had 1 full season in which the Texans didn't win 9 or more games. I'm not saying he's great by any means, but he damn sure isn't terrible. I'd take him over Jon Gruden or Jeff Fischer. He's an average to maybe slightly above average HC. If he didn't get to ruin the team by being GM he'd still be there and the Texans would be in decent shape.
Yep.
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kccrow 11:22 PM 10-30-2020
Originally Posted by Detoxing:
Ya'll are doing in this thread what the "experts" do when evaluating college talent: Judging the player by the team instead of the player himself.

The Texans ARE Deshaun Watson. There's no one else.

They feature a RB that was washed up two seasons ago.

Brandin Cooks who's what, on his 4th team in 6 seasons? When the Patriots, Rams and Saints decide they don't need you, that says something.

Will Fuller who is, IMO, the most over rated WR in the league. He runs fast, big whoop. He has stone hands, he always injured and he doesn't change a defensive game plan unless there's a real #1 on the other side.

30 Year old Randall Cobb, an aging roster with NO DEPTH at all and what quite possibly could be the worst HC in the league. (Yeah we all remember the Romeo Crennel season, don't we?)

Give this guy a stable front office, a creative HC and OC, and some legit weapons (you know, the things every successful young QB gets).

The tools are all there. It's undeniable. Now get him some help so he can actually develop those tools into success.
Someone I actually agree with in this thread. 100%
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crayzkirk 11:48 PM 10-30-2020
I've said more than once that behind every great QB is a coach ready to take the credit. I will also say that in the wrong environment, even a good QB will struggle. Watson is a good QB in a bad situation. He takes a lot of sacks; is the cause the offensive line, the play calling or his own inability to read the play quickly enough? I don't know. He seems to have a lot of the qualities that makes a good professional QB.

A bad coach can ruin a good QB while a great QB can make a bad coach look average.
[Reply]
WhiteWhale 08:45 AM 10-31-2020
Originally Posted by Detoxing:
If you're setting the bar at "He's not Patrick Mahomes", that's a pretty damn unrealistic standard.
Yeah, but the national media guys do it all the time.

Last year in the playoffs all I heard was that watson was just as good and would have all the same success.

All while they claim the only thing that saved patrick from being a bust is the genius of Reid (who wasnt considered a genius until AFTER mahomes got here) and the fact that alex smith taught him how to play quarterback.

By golly, if watson had that, he'd be the best ever.

I like watson, but he gets a pass other guys do not, and they spent a lot of time pretending he didn't have an all time great to throw at.
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dlphg9 09:23 AM 10-31-2020
Originally Posted by Detoxing:
Ya'll are doing in this thread what the "experts" do when evaluating college talent: Judging the player by the team instead of the player himself.

In college you can have a great/elite QB and have a completely mediocre team, but how often does that same scenario happen in the NFL? How often do great QBs lead their NFL teams to a 3-4 win season? Hell even average to slightly above average QBs can win their team a handful of games.

Look at Matt Ryan, I'd put him in that great QB column and hes had a one 4 win season and one 6 win season in 13 years.

Matt Stafford since becoming the full time starter has only one 4 win season and one 6 win season.

Ryan Tannehill lowest win total was 6 while he was with the trash Dolphins and had to play the Patriots 2 times a season. He won 7 games or more in every other season with them.

Kirk Cousins started 3 seasons for the shit hole Washington Redskins and won 9, 8, and 7 games in those seasons he started.

Matt Schaub while with the Texans

07 4-7
08 6-5
09 9-7
10 6-10
11 7-3
12 12-4
13 2-6

In the NFL all you need is an average QB to not be completely terrible. Watson is on pace for 2 wins this season, but some of you wanna act like he's some great QB that's being held back by everyone. Great QBs don't have 2 win seasons no matter how bad the coaching or team is.
[Reply]
Megatron96 12:03 PM 10-31-2020
Originally Posted by dlphg9:
In college you can have a great/elite QB and have a completely mediocre team, but how often does that same scenario happen in the NFL? How often do great QBs lead their NFL teams to a 3-4 win season? Hell even average to slightly above average QBs can win their team a handful of games.

Look at Matt Ryan, I'd put him in that great QB column and hes had a one 4 win season and one 6 win season in 13 years.

Matt Stafford since becoming the full time starter has only one 4 win season and one 6 win season.

Ryan Tannehill lowest win total was 6 while he was with the trash Dolphins and had to play the Patriots 2 times a season. He won 7 games or more in every other season with them.

Kirk Cousins started 3 seasons for the shit hole Washington Redskins and won 9, 8, and 7 games in those seasons he started.

Matt Schaub while with the Texans

07 4-7
08 6-5
09 9-7
10 6-10
11 7-3
12 12-4
13 2-6

In the NFL all you need is an average QB to not be completely terrible. Watson is on pace for 2 wins this season, but some of you wanna act like he's some great QB that's being held back by everyone. Great QBs don't have 2 win seasons no matter how bad the coaching or team is.
Um,

Joe Montana:

1980. Started 7 games, 2-5 record.

1982. Started 9 games, 3-6 record.

Joe Namath:

1976. 3-11.

Drew Brees:

2003. 2-9.

Carson Palmer:

2010-12. Won just 4 games in each season, out of a possible 40 games.

Just a few examples. Plenty more to look at.
[Reply]
WhiteWhale 05:01 PM 10-31-2020
Originally Posted by Megatron96:
Um,

Joe Montana:

1980. Started 7 games, 2-5 record.

1982. Started 9 games, 3-6 record.

Joe Namath:

1976. 3-11.

Drew Brees:

2003. 2-9.

Carson Palmer:

2010-12. Won just 4 games in each season, out of a possible 40 games.

Just a few examples. Plenty more to look at.
Drew brees was terrible in 2003.

Remember what happened that offseason?

The rest tend to be guys at the very beginning or end of their careers.

And even then, exceptions dont disprove a rule. Even if watson loses a bunch this year, I still think it's an exception to something overwhelmingly true in 2020.
[Reply]
dlphg9 09:32 PM 10-31-2020
Originally Posted by Megatron96:
Um,

Joe Montana:

1980. Started 7 games, 2-5 record.

1982. Started 9 games, 3-6 record.

Joe Namath:

1976. 3-11.

Drew Brees:

2003. 2-9.

Carson Palmer:

2010-12. Won just 4 games in each season, out of a possible 40 games.

Just a few examples. Plenty more to look at.
Montana

1980 - 2nd season in league and not even full time starter. I'm not gonna count that record since he hadn't proven he could do anything and it takes time for some QBs to adjust.

1982 - 3 wins in 9 games is still more than Watson's 1 win. We will see how many he ends up with. To be fair Joe was injured in game 2. I'd be willing to bet he was playing injured in those last 7 games.

Brees

2003 - was his 3rd season in the league and was clearly not the QB he would become.

Namath

1976 - Was clearly way past his prime and it was his last year in NY. After the next season he retired.

Palmer - He had the Raiders at 4-5 in 2011, so I'm counting that as a win. So he had 4 wins in 2010 in his last year in Cinci and 4 wins in 2012 in his last year with Oakland. Clearly he was in the worst situation of pretty much all of these QBs.
[Reply]
Megatron96 03:42 AM 11-01-2020
Originally Posted by dlphg9:
Montana

1980 - 2nd season in league and not even full time starter. I'm not gonna count that record since he hadn't proven he could do anything and it takes time for some QBs to adjust.

1982 - 3 wins in 9 games is still more than Watson's 1 win. We will see how many he ends up with. To be fair Joe was injured in game 2. I'd be willing to bet he was playing injured in those last 7 games.

Brees

2003 - was his 3rd season in the league and was clearly not the QB he would become.

Namath

1976 - Was clearly way past his prime and it was his last year in NY. After the next season he retired.

Palmer - He had the Raiders at 4-5 in 2011, so I'm counting that as a win. So he had 4 wins in 2010 in his last year in Cinci and 4 wins in 2012 in his last year with Oakland. Clearly he was in the worst situation of pretty much all of these QBs.
Hey, I’m not gonna disagree with you. My only point was is that there’s plenty of great quarterbacks out there that had a bad start to a season. And I’m not even saying that Watson is great. I do think he’s pretty good, and i believe that Billy never designed a really great offense around him. But I don’t believe that is a top-five quarterback.

I don’t think you’re giving him his due though when you say that you think Derek Carr is better than Watson. Because I can’t figure out how that’s possible. Watson is certainly tougher than Carr; he played a bunch of games while having a punctured lung, ffs. He doesn’t panic like Derek and start throwing interceptions all over the field. He’s obviously a lot more athletic and he can make throws from platforms that Derek can’t even imagine.

Id even have to say that he’s probably better than Tannehill as well. Obviously Tannehill is improved quite a bit since his days in Miami, or the end of the day he still kind of the same one dimensional quarterback. Because once you take away the run game and he can’t run play action, he’s kind of skittish in the pocket and he starts getting blinders and throwing footballs were they really shouldn’t go.

Watson doesn’t really do that. Again I’m not saying he’s great, but he’s got more talent and skills than Tannehill. Tannehill has to have a great running game, above average receivers, and a good defense, or he’s basically a league average quarterback.

Meanwhile, Watson’s been playing with a bad offense of line, a rotation of not great running backs, basically one offensive weapon, and aside from a decent pass rush, one of the worst defenses in the last 3-4 years. Yet in spite of all of that, he still managed to win 10 or 11 games a year, until 2020.

And in 2020 they started their season playing the defending Super Bowl champions in week one, The Baltimore ravens, the Steelers who ESPN has ranked as the best team in the NFL, the Vikings a playoff team from 2019, Tennessee a team that made it to the AFC conference game, And green bay the team that went to the NFC championship game. That has to be about the toughest schedule to open the season as I’ve seen in more than a decade.
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dlphg9 07:07 PM 11-15-2020
Lol DeAndre Hopkins showing you all how he made Deshaun relevant and Deshaun showed you all that hes basically Alex Smith.
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RealSNR 09:58 AM 11-16-2020
I hate this Colin Cowherd take he spouts all the time. "Deshaun Watson was Patrick Mahomes before Mahomes. Then he got hurt and the rest is history..."

That's like saying "Goran Dragic was Steph Curry before Steph Curry"
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