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Saccopoo Memorial Draft Forum>Here's an idea you'll hate.
Direckshun 12:29 PM 02-22-2021
I think we should take Zaven Collins (linebacker out of Tulsa) if he falls, or even entertain the notion of trading up a few spots for him if the opportunity presents itself.

I've already anticipated the hate this notion may receive, so here's what I think some of you might say to me. Which, essentially, is what I've been saying to myself the past few days.

You're crazy.

Maybe, but I don't think I'm being presumptuous when I say the defense has the pieces to become a Top 10 unit with a few more upgrades in select spots.

Clearly, the biggest spot is the DE position, where we're going to just need an overhaul. But based on Veach's pursuit of J.J. Watt, I think it's clear he's going to try to land us a viable rusher across from Clark through free agency.

I also suspect our secondary will remain pretty strong, with Sneed's development and the safety tandem being one of the best in the league. We'll need to flesh out the depth at CB and S but every team does.

With some choice additions along the DL and the DBs, I think it's clear the team can take a leap to the Top 10 if it stocks up at LB.

We already burnt a 2nd last year on Gay and Hitchens is going to start.

True, but Collins can be a Sam for a year until Hitchens is cuttable, where he can then slide into the Mike position, which he's built for. Collins is going to need a year of seasoning anyway.

Linebacker is not a premium position worthy of a 1st round pick.

Isn't it, though? Great defenses routinely have outstanding linebackers who can fly around and stuff the run and make plays. The Bucs just beat us in the Super Bowl in part because their linebackers are smart and athletic.

Collins in particular possesses a rare skillset of being a huge (6'4", 260 lbs) linebacker who can bully at the line of scrimmage while also proving to be outstanding in coverage. Combined with Gay, you'd have two plus-sized linebackers who are adept in coverage.

Keep in mind, that you're not just drafting to improve at linebacker, you're drafting to ostensibly launch your defense into the Top 10, which takes the pressure off Pat and the offense.

Did you actually watch the Super Bowl? We gotta protect the Franchise and get him more weapons.

No argument from me there, I just think you can do that while taking your defense to the next level.

I reserve the right to change my mind if Veach doesn't stock up on OL or WR in free agency, but I think he does that. If he does, then you're still going to want to draft at those positions, but the biggest improvement over last year we can make can be on defense -- make the unit What It Needs To Be, and Pat's life gets dramatically easier.

The one thing we should learn about Brady's career is that he hasn't always had to be excellent. Sometimes, the run game has been on for him, and at other times in his career, his defense was the linchpin that got him a couple Super Bowls at least.

Brady doesn't have to be great all the time because the defense helps him carry the load. Pat cannot say the same, but he sure can if we make a strategic upgrade to the second level of our defense in a way that will help our run and pass D.

Spags doesn't even really need great linebackers.

Correct. He needs smart linebackers who aren't going to get pushed around at the line of scrimmage while also not getting destroyed in coverage. Gay is an uber-athlete who can actually be really good in coverage. Collins will be outstanding in coverage and outstanding against the run.

They're great fits, and they will make the rest of the team's life easier if they do their jobs well.

Direckshun thread etc etc

Shrug.
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staylor26 12:34 PM 02-22-2021
I don’t hate it, but we’d have to fill some needs in free agency for me to feel comfortable doing it.
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The Franchise 12:39 PM 02-22-2021
I don’t think there’s a lot of draft picks that I would hate outside of:

A QB.
A RB.
A center because the value is shit.

Hell...I could see them taking a safety just because Spags loves running three safeties out there.
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htismaqe 12:47 PM 02-22-2021
Originally Posted by staylor26:
I dont hate it, but wed have to fill some needs in free agency for me to feel comfortable doing it.
Exactly.

I'm not going to "hate" any move they make - they've earned my trust.

Still doesn't mean taking an ILB at 31 is a good idea because it's not, especially when we have needs at much more valuable positions.
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htismaqe 12:49 PM 02-22-2021
And there's no way I'm trading up for ANYBODY in this draft, not with the depth that's there.

Trading up for a LB is lunacy.
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htismaqe 12:51 PM 02-22-2021
Originally Posted by Direckshun:
Linebacker is not a premium position worthy of a 1st round pick.

Isn't it, though? Great defenses routinely have outstanding linebackers who can fly around and stuff the run and make plays. The Bucs just beat us in the Super Bowl in part because their linebackers are smart and athletic.
The vast majority of really good to great LB's in this league were drafted in the top half of the 1st round, not the bottom half.

In fact, you'll find more studs in the 2nd round like David and Wagner than you will in the back half of the first.

It's a bad idea.
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wachashi 12:57 PM 02-22-2021
I would be thrilled if we got him without trading up, and contingent on how free agency and the board breaks. So yeah, I agree with this.

Quotes from his coach at Tulsa - a biased source, but interesting.

“We just figured in the scheme that we run as our WILL linebacker his skill set allowed him to do so much. By being our WILL linebacker we felt like we could use him in our blitz packages, bring him off the edge, bring him up the middle, use him in drop situations. Like I said, a very intelligent player,” Montgomery said. “So, being able to do some disguise things with him and allow him to use his athleticism. We just felt like having him off the ball allowed him to run and move and really affect the game more,” Montgomery said.

“At the next level I think he can play multiple spots. I think he can still play the WILL linebacker depending on their scheme,” Montgomery said. “I think he can play their MIKE and be a Tampa 2 type drop linebacker if you needed him to be, but also have the size and the speed and the strength to play in the middle and do the things that he needs to do.”
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Dante84 02:54 PM 02-22-2021
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
And there's no way I'm trading up for ANYBODY in this draft, not with the depth that's there.

Trading up for a LB is lunacy.
That's where I'm at...

Feels like the draft has 10-15 *elite* draft picks, and then the next 60-70 players are all all 2nd-ish round quality.

Would have been a great year to have multiple 3rd rounders.
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el borracho 03:22 PM 02-22-2021
How big is the gap between Collins and a guy like Pete Werner? Werner has size, speed, experience at multiple LB positions and might be available at 64.
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kccrow 06:27 PM 02-22-2021
Originally Posted by el borracho:
How big is the gap between Collins and a guy like Pete Werner? Werner has size, speed, experience at multiple LB positions and might be available at 64.
Werner sucks, signed OSU fan.

The backer from OSU you'd want is Browning. The kid is an athletic specimen that is just starting to put it together.
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The Franchise 06:35 PM 02-22-2021
I’d be all for Jabril Cox in the 2nd if they want another LB.
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staylor26 06:44 PM 02-22-2021
Originally Posted by The Franchise:
Id be all for Jabril Cox in the 2nd if they want another LB.
I would JIMP with that pick.

Gay Cox. What a great combo.
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Stryker 07:29 PM 02-22-2021
Originally Posted by The Franchise:
Id be all for Jabril Cox in the 2nd if they want another LB.
That is a pipe dream! Would be incredible!
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htismaqe 10:08 AM 02-23-2021
Originally Posted by The Franchise:
Id be all for Jabril Cox in the 2nd if they want another LB.
Yep. Much better value.
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