We don't really have one of these yet, so figured we could use this as a place to discuss potential free agent acquisitions and what we would like to look for them to bring in.
If any of you guys are interested, heres a good place to do some research.
Ugh. Now I'm all pessimistic about the kind of draft we'll have this year, especially with the extra 2nd round pick. Hearing Veach talk about their beliefs that Speaks wouldn't be there and how desperate they were to get a pass rusher makes me think he'll do the exact same fucking thing again on draft day.
This dude REALLY suffers from tunnel vision. It's probably the scout in him, where he's built a career on bugging the shit out of the HC and GM over one particular guy. It's like he went in to Day 2 with one strategy and one strategy only: draft Breeland Speaks no matter what.
I get he really liked him, but holy crap... he's actually serious when he says there was such a sharp drop off in ability and talent at other positions at that particular point in the draft? He's saying the Chiefs board was actually all about Breeland Speaks and the next best guy wasn't even close to the appropriate late-2nd round value that they had with that selection?
I'm honestly preparing for the worst this year. I really don't trust Veach when it comes to drafts. Sorry. You can't be that focused and obsessed about one player in the 2nd round. You just can't. And if you are, it means you need to get more perspective and gain more flexibility as the primary decision maker on draft day. He clearly seems to have a problem with adjusting his draft strategies on the fly. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Simply Red:
do you like Deebo Samuel as an early grab? He doesn't register in most draft WR department's top five because he was KR'ing a lot - so the exposure wasn't as prevalent for open-eyes. As far as I can see he's a super dangerous HR hitter.
I'm sorry, SR.
No, I'm not a Deebo guy, at least not when we'd need to take him. If he were there in the 3rd I'd probably grab him.
If we had fewer needs or I thought I saw a guy that could be truly exceptional, I'd maybe be down for using a 2nd on him. For the right team with the right needs, I think he's a 2nd round talent.
But for this team, I think he's a solid talent that will be roughly equivalent as a prospect to guys that we need more. If he's on the board and so is someone like Justin Layne or Joejuan Williams, I'd say they're all similarly likely to be successful but the DBs are guys we are more likely to put to use now.
I guess I could see some scenario where the board has fallen to where he's the clear best prospect available, in which case I'd take him with an eye on him being Watkins eventual replacement. It wouldn't be the end of the world. But I don't see that as being terribly likely - there will be someone of similar prospect value who can fill a more immediate pressing issue. [Reply]
Originally Posted by RealSNR:
Ugh. Now I'm all pessimistic about the kind of draft we'll have this year, especially with the extra 2nd round pick. Hearing Veach talk about their beliefs that Speaks wouldn't be there and how desperate they were to get a pass rusher makes me think he'll do the exact same ****ing thing again on draft day.
This dude REALLY suffers from tunnel vision. It's probably the scout in him, where he's built a career on bugging the shit out of the HC and GM over one particular guy. It's like he went in to Day 2 with one strategy and one strategy only: draft Breeland Speaks no matter what.
I get he really liked him, but holy crap... he's actually serious when he says there was such a sharp drop off in ability and talent at other positions at that particular point in the draft? He's saying the Chiefs board was actually all about Breeland Speaks and the next best guy wasn't even close to the appropriate late-2nd round value that they had with that selection?
I'm honestly preparing for the worst this year. I really don't trust Veach when it comes to drafts. Sorry. You can't be that focused and obsessed about one player in the 2nd round. You just can't. And if you are, it means you need to get more perspective and gain more flexibility as the primary decision maker on draft day. He clearly seems to have a problem with adjusting his draft strategies on the fly.
Originally Posted by RealSNR:
Ugh. Now I'm all pessimistic about the kind of draft we'll have this year, especially with the extra 2nd round pick. Hearing Veach talk about their beliefs that Speaks wouldn't be there and how desperate they were to get a pass rusher makes me think he'll do the exact same fucking thing again on draft day.
This dude REALLY suffers from tunnel vision. It's probably the scout in him, where he's built a career on bugging the shit out of the HC and GM over one particular guy. It's like he went in to Day 2 with one strategy and one strategy only: draft Breeland Speaks no matter what.
I get he really liked him, but holy crap... he's actually serious when he says there was such a sharp drop off in ability and talent at other positions at that particular point in the draft? He's saying the Chiefs board was actually all about Breeland Speaks and the next best guy wasn't even close to the appropriate late-2nd round value that they had with that selection?
I'm honestly preparing for the worst this year. I really don't trust Veach when it comes to drafts. Sorry. You can't be that focused and obsessed about one player in the 2nd round. You just can't. And if you are, it means you need to get more perspective and gain more flexibility as the primary decision maker on draft day. He clearly seems to have a problem with adjusting his draft strategies on the fly.
Yeah, I'm prepared to be pretty pissed off when we take Juan Thornhill in the first and hear the same speech.
I mean I guess you're a genius if it works...but it'd better work. [Reply]
Originally Posted by RealSNR:
Ugh. Now I'm all pessimistic about the kind of draft we'll have this year, especially with the extra 2nd round pick. Hearing Veach talk about their beliefs that Speaks wouldn't be there and how desperate they were to get a pass rusher makes me think he'll do the exact same fucking thing again on draft day.
This dude REALLY suffers from tunnel vision. It's probably the scout in him, where he's built a career on bugging the shit out of the HC and GM over one particular guy. It's like he went in to Day 2 with one strategy and one strategy only: draft Breeland Speaks no matter what.
I get he really liked him, but holy crap... he's actually serious when he says there was such a sharp drop off in ability and talent at other positions at that particular point in the draft? He's saying the Chiefs board was actually all about Breeland Speaks and the next best guy wasn't even close to the appropriate late-2nd round value that they had with that selection?
I'm honestly preparing for the worst this year. I really don't trust Veach when it comes to drafts. Sorry. You can't be that focused and obsessed about one player in the 2nd round. You just can't. And if you are, it means you need to get more perspective and gain more flexibility as the primary decision maker on draft day. He clearly seems to have a problem with adjusting his draft strategies on the fly.
Lol this is exactly what he did with Mahomes though (he didn’t actually make the pick, but you know what I mean)
You win some and you lose some. I still have hope for Speaks though, and I honestly think he surprises people this year. [Reply]
All this Kyler Murray hype got me thinking about 2017. Mahomes was so under the radar. He didn't have to go thru all this and thank God he didn't. How they kept him under wraps is yet another credit to Andy and Veach. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
And to build on this a little bit.
When you say my 'bias' is showing, I presume you're speaking to my favorable opinion of Ford.
I have a bias, but it's not to Ford. I had no personal reason to like Ford when we took him (though I do like him now, having heard him for several years).
But when it comes to first and second day picks, I am an unabashed tools whore. I have conceded this point for MANY years. When you compare Speaks to K-Pass, I'm annoyed by those picks for very different reasons. My problem with the K-Pass pick wasn't who he is, but rather who is is NOT. I wanted Kamara. Kamara was a no-brainer of a pick there and by taking K-Pass I thought we fucked up mightily.
But at least with K-Pass I saw a glimmer of hope that we might be able to coach him up to use significant physical gifts. There's no salary cap on coaching, man - go get yourself a badass staff and use 'em. Teach these guys with tools for days how to play football.
Speaks, OTOH, simply doesn't have those. My problem with Speaks wasn't that I wanted someone else, it's that I didn't want him. To use the ol' 'decision lens' terminology, he's simply never someone I would've taken in the first 2 days. He's a 4th round pick for me; a plodder with limited ceiling who even the best coaching in the world could get you to maybe a solid DE.
The only way he can be more than that is if he completely transforms his entire body. Well hell, now you have TWO areas of emphasis, you need physique and technique. That, my friends, is not a 2nd day draft choice.
So yeah, my 'bias' is showing. My bias on high-end picks is that I want guys with tools that can be developed.
Speaks doesn't have those.
KPass literally has no tools. He's going into his 3rd season and still doesn't have any. And for all the complaining about Speaks' body type, how in the world is someone built like KPass going to be successful as a down lineman with no pass rush moves?
What you've just said about KPass just shows that your not all that set in your "analysis" because KPass is literally a waste of a draft pick. He's got NOTHING and he's produced nothing.
As for Speaks and his physique, I respect your opinions as you know, but your opinion of him is, quite frankly, a joke. He's not fat, he's not slow.
In fact, he's the ONLY one out of him, Houston, and Ford that even laid a hand on Tom Brady last year in 2 games. He beat Trent Brown badly, something neither Ford nor Houston could do in multiple tries. [Reply]
Originally Posted by MahiMike:
All this Kyler Murray hype got me thinking about 2017. Mahomes was so under the radar. He didn't have to go thru all this and thank God he didn't. How they kept him under wraps is yet another credit to Andy and Veach.
And the incredibly awful defense at Texas Tech [Reply]
"This wasn't a great pass rusher draft, so we asked ourselves where we could get the most value out of that position and still land a really great player."
Fuck you, Veach. Not a great pass rusher draft? Then DON'T DRAFT A FUCKING PASS RUSHER. It's not that fucking hard, you moron.
The Chiefs were too good at CB and S before the draft last year for you to take somebody there? DL? They were too good? Allen Bailey didn't need to be replaced in a year? Hell, you had a wide gaping hole at NT. You couldn't have improved there?
TE? RB? G? Those were aaaaallllll fucking gravy, huh? Nothing at all you could have done to get a player who would see the field and make an impact for the team in the near future, even if that meant the next season, eh?
Nope. Pass rusher was the only option I guess.
The last time I heard a Chiefs GM expound on their draft strategy and sound MORE ignorant was in 2009 when Pioli admitted to that being an "evaluation" year to take stock of the roster.
I hope like hell you learned a lot from year 1 to year 2, Brett. Otherwise we're in deep shit. [Reply]
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
KPass literally has no tools. He's going into his 3rd season and still doesn't have any. And for all the complaining about Speaks' body type, how in the world is someone built like KPass going to be successful as a down lineman with no pass rush moves?
What you've just said about KPass just shows that your not all that set in your "analysis" because KPass is literally a waste of a draft pick. He's got NOTHING and he's produced nothing.
As for Speaks and his physique, I respect your opinions as you know, but your opinion of him is, quite frankly, a joke. He's not fat, he's not slow.
In fact, he's the ONLY one out of him, Houston, and Ford that even laid a hand on Tom Brady last year in 2 games. He beat Trent Brown badly, something neither Ford nor Houston could do in multiple tries.
He's absolutely slow. And he's not fat for a DE, but he's soft. He needs to get some bad weight off in a big way (something he's acknowledged). He was simply incapable of pushing guys backwards and if you lack the feet to outmaneuver them or the hands to out fight them, you better at least have the functional strength to physically move them (again, Allen Bailey). Speaks doesn't.
As for K-Pass, the dude's long with excellent functional strength and solid 'glide' speed. His first step needs help but that's why he was so badly mis-cast as an OLB.
You're right that he has no technique, but that's a completely different discussion. But to say that a guy with his baseline strength, length and overall athleticism has no tools is to define the term so narrowly as to mean nothing. [Reply]
Originally Posted by RealSNR:
"This wasn't a great pass rusher draft, so we asked ourselves where we could get the most value out of that position and still land a really great player."
**** you, Veach. Not a great pass rusher draft? Then DON'T DRAFT A ****ING PASS RUSHER. It's not that ****ing hard, you moron.
The Chiefs were too good at CB and S before the draft last year for you to take somebody there? DL? They were too good? Allen Bailey didn't need to be replaced in a year? Hell, you had a wide gaping hole at NT. You couldn't have improved there?
TE? RB? G? Those were aaaaallllll ****ing gravy, huh? Nothing at all you could have done to get a player who would see the field and make an impact for the team in the near future, even if that meant the next season, eh?
Nope. Pass rusher was the only option I guess.
The last time I heard a Chiefs GM expound on their draft strategy and sound MORE ignorant was in 2009 when Pioli admitted to that being an "evaluation" year to take stock of the roster.
I hope like hell you learned a lot from year 1 to year 2, Brett. Otherwise we're in deep shit.
