Originally Posted by Amnorix:
So Tatum has no vision and Brown just overall sucks. Tell me how exactly they have gotten this far in the playoffs? Is Al Horford really Wilt Chamberlain and we're all missing it?
Horford is actually good but it has more to do with Brad Stevens being the best coach in the NBA and the Eastern Conference being a pile of trash.
If you put the same group of players in the West with let’s say, Doc Rivers, they wouldn’t be particularly good at all. [Reply]
Originally Posted by KC_Connection:
Horford is actually good but it has more to do with Brad Stevens being the best coach in the NBA and the Eastern Conference being a pile of trash.
If you put the same group of players in the West with let’s say, Doc Rivers, they wouldn’t be particularly good at all.
I think Horford is underrated. I also think Brad is about the best coach in the NBA, and agree that the East is a pile of trash by and large.
And yet somehow the Celtics are one game from the finals, and nobody is confusing Horford for Shaq or Wilt, are they?
Listen, I'm not saying Tatum is Larry Legend, but for a 20 year old rookie, he's pretty damn good. [Reply]
Originally Posted by KC_Connection:
Horford is actually good but it has more to do with Brad Stevens being the best coach in the NBA and the Eastern Conference being a pile of trash.
If you put the same group of players in the West with let’s say, Doc Rivers, they wouldn’t be particularly good at all.
That some great analysis. Next time a good football player goes from a good team to the Browns and sucks then that must be because he sucks as a player. Or vice versa because we have never seen a "shitty" player suddenly become good when they go to a new team or anything. Nope that never happens. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Amnorix:
I think Horford is underrated. I also think Brad is about the best coach in the NBA, and agree that the East is a pile of trash by and large.
And yet somehow the Celtics are one game from the finals, and nobody is confusing Horford for Shaq or Wilt, are they?
Listen, I'm not saying Tatum is Larry Legend, but for a 20 year old rookie, he's pretty damn good.
a 20 year old rookie that in 6 months is about to go back to a bench role lol [Reply]
Originally Posted by mcaj22:
a 20 year old rookie that in 6 months is about to go back to a bench role lol
You've already established that you're a hater.
Originally Posted by mcaj22:
im just glad the overrated Boston Role Players are going to lose. Then in the offseason a super team will form in the East to keep Boston from ever making a finals for the duration of Kyrie and Haywards Celtics career. Very enjoyable.
Originally Posted by Amnorix:
I think Horford is underrated. I also think Brad is about the best coach in the NBA, and agree that the East is a pile of trash by and large.
And yet somehow the Celtics are one game from the finals, and nobody is confusing Horford for Shaq or Wilt, are they?
Listen, I'm not saying Tatum is Larry Legend, but for a 20 year old rookie, he's pretty damn good.
Raptors were two games away from the Finals two years ago against a much better Cavs team (wasn't comprised entirely of scrubs and also had Kyrie Irving). It doesn't necessarily mean anything.
I fully anticipate whoever comes out of the West (still think Warriors but please somehow choke) will beat Boston/LeBron with relative ease. [Reply]
That some great analysis. Next time a good football player goes from a good team to the Browns and sucks then that must be because he sucks as a player. Or vice versa because we have never seen a "shitty" player suddenly become good when they go to a new team or anything. Nope that never happens.
Don't understand your post in relation to mine. I'm just saying that Brad Stevens has gotten a bunch of pretty mediocre players to play extremely well together. If you put the same guys with even an average NBA coach, it would not work at all. There are plenty of other teams in the NBA with more talent than Boston (look no further than the Washington Wizards in the same conference) who do absolutely nothing with it. [Reply]
Originally Posted by dirk digler:
If anyone goes to the bench or traded it will be Jaylen Brown.
its one or the other that moves to the bench once the stars come back. Going to be a nice logjam the Celtics will have after these young guys made a deep playoff run without their leaders. I'm sure they wont be happy being relegated to the bench next season. [Reply]
Originally Posted by KC_Connection:
Don't understand your post in relation to mine. I'm just saying that Brad Stevens has gotten a bunch of pretty mediocre players to play extremely well together. If you put the same guys with even an average NBA coach, it would not work at all. There are plenty of other teams in the NBA with more talent than Boston (look no further than the Washington Wizards in the same conference) who do absolutely nothing with it.
When healthy Boston by far has the most talent in the East. Sure Rozier and Baynes are mediocre players, but Brown is an above average player, Tatum is going to be a perennial All-Star and Horford already is.
Just because you think if you ship them off to a shitty organization and they don't do well doesn't mean they are bad\mediocre players. There is alot more that goes into that. [Reply]
Originally Posted by dirk digler:
When healthy Boston by far has the most talent in the East.
Absolute nonsense unless you're talking about them with Kyrie and Hayward. What they currently have isn't particularly talented at all compared to most decent NBA teams.
Originally Posted by :
Brown is an above average player,
He isn't. If you look further than his point totals, he's actually pretty bad.
Originally Posted by :
Tatum is going to be a perennial All-Star
Maybe, but he isn't right now.
Originally Posted by :
Just because you think if you ship them off to a shitty organization and they don't do well doesn't mean they are bad\mediocre players. There is alot more that goes into that.
I'm talking team success as a group, not individual success. This is a credit to Stevens. [Reply]
Originally Posted by KC_Connection:
Absolute nonsense unless you're talking about them with Kyrie and Hayward. What they currently have isn't particularly talented at all compared to most decent NBA teams.
He isn't. If you look further than his point totals, he's actually pretty bad.
Maybe, but he isn't right now.
I'm talking team success as a group, not individual success. This is a credit to Stevens.
Yes I am talking about when healthy. But I will post this piece from ESPN today about Tatum and Brown and how the "experts" believe both of these guys are cornerstone franchise type players. Heck I have heard people suggest including from the guy below they should trade Hayward and not either one of these guys regardless of whether they make it to the Finals or not. Don't know if I agree with that especially if you could get AD.
Originally Posted by : Fact or fiction: Jaylen Brown and/or Jayson Tatum should be untouchable in future trade talks.
André Snellings, ESPN Fantasy: Fiction. Both have been incredibly impressive all season, and neither should be moved unless it's a special deal. But Danny Ainge's track record of trades is brilliant bordering on unfair, and he certainly has earned the latitude to make any trade without censure. Plus, you have to factor in Hayward, who gives the Celtics three extremely high-level wings on a team that could use an upgrade on the front line. Of the two, Tatum appears to be the more unique, generation-level talent who should be harder to part with.
Kevin Arnovitz, ESPN.com:Fiction. Brown and Tatum are two of the best stories in basketball. Both are prototypical wings for winning basketball in 2018. But nobody, with a couple of generational exceptions, is untouchable in the NBA. For example, the Celtics could decide at a certain juncture that they can draw from this embarrassment of riches to aggregate the assets needed to acquire a top-five player looking for a new home.
Kevin Pelton, ESPN Insider:Fiction, but given Boston's cap situation, I'd be hesitant to trade them for a veteran star. A key part of what makes Brown and Tatum so valuable is that they still have two and three years left on their relatively cheap rookie contracts -- crucial for a team that is headed into the luxury tax soon. The Celtics also will have difficulty finding matching salary for a trade any time soon, given that Hayward, Irving and Al Horford are their three players making more than $7 million. It's hard to put together a deal that makes sense for both teams.
Micah Adams, ESPN Stats & Information: Fact on both. In a positionless league in which the ability to defend three to four positions and the ability to score in a variety of ways are perhaps the two most in-demand traits, Brown and Tatum are Boston's most important pieces moving forward, even more so than Irving and Hayward. Throw in that there are multiple seasons left before each gets paid -- which allows for significant flexibility in building the roster -- and these two should be utterly untouchable. That includes any trade for someone with the initials A.D.
Chris Herring, FiveThirtyEight: Fact. I think you'd have to sooner give consideration to moving someone such as Hayward to a team that wants and needs a star. What this season has illustrated, to an extent, is that you don't necessarily need every single grocery item you got from the store this past summer. It definitely doesn't make sense to try to figure out how to exchange the best and cheapest food you got; instead, flip the expensive item and get a bunch of things in its place, if you can.
Just from a roster standpoint its going to be hard for Tatum to put up all star numbers for the next 3 or so years. (assuming nobody gets traded)
But with the stars back it's options 1a Kyrie 1b Hayward 2 Horford then probably Tatum?
When the Celtics are full force Tatum is at BEST option 4. Now if the stars never come back healthy or get traded then absolutely. But it's not like he's option 1 or 2 for 82 games like he is right now in the playoffs. There's only one basketball and the max contract guys gotta eat. And Tatum doesn't do enough in the other categories to get in with a low ppg like say a Draymond can. [Reply]
