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The Lounge>The RUN game
UChieffyBugger 11:26 AM 10-09-2019
Should we be concerned about this right now? Damien can have his moments but as each game goes by you realise he's not one to be grinding out yards. Mccoy has flashed but again he's not best running between the tackles and the coach's don't seem to trust Darwin at the moment despite looking impressive in pre-season. So that leaves Darrel Williams and I was very surprised that he didn't get many touches on Sunday after he performed so well in the the two previous games!!..like WTF is Andy thinking? The offense when healthy is brilliant but come playoff time and in the seasons ahead we're gonna need balance. It's games like Sunday that Kareem's demise really hurts us.
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jerryaldini 07:05 PM 10-09-2019
Agree with Bwillie, run game mostly inconsequential, and most important skill for a RB are YAC and pass blocking.

Couple caveats

Mix it in just enough to keep the D line honest, especially draws, but screens can also accomplish this.

On 3rd and very short increase your first down odds.
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BWillie 09:00 PM 10-09-2019
Originally Posted by Megatron96:
And yet, if analytics were the end-all be-all that some think, I'd never lose a sports bet.

In fact, I wonder what analytics would've said about the Chiefs chances of losing last Sunday's game?

Oh wait . . .
You are being results oriented again. There is always X percent of something happening.

Shit happens. All you can do is make the best decisions as possible. You can make the best decision and still lose.
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BWillie 09:03 PM 10-09-2019
Originally Posted by jerryaldini:
Agree with Bwillie, run game mostly inconsequential, and most important skill for a RB are YAC and pass blocking.

Couple caveats

Mix it in just enough to keep the D line honest, especially draws, but screens can also accomplish this.

On 3rd and very short increase your first down odds.
Yes, in real practice I would probably advocate this team to run 10-15% of the time in the first half. The second half would depend on the teams lead, game dynamics, and conditions of the game. And what you said, if is very short yardage situation where it increases moving the chains but that is honestly not something you run into a bunch of times in a game. I think almost all teams run the ball on first and second down way way way way too much.

Even running 10% of the time keeps them honest ENOUGH. Coaches are going to gradually run less and less and less as we see the rules continue to gravitate to the benefit of the QB, WR, and TE.
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DTVietnam 09:06 PM 10-09-2019
Damien should be the man..rewatch the last few weeks and playoffs of last season..hes a tough runner. . best receiving back on the team and can score form anywhere. .

but with this offense now he can never get in a rhythm
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Chiefshrink 09:09 PM 10-09-2019
Originally Posted by rabblerouser:
NEITHER HAS THE OLINE.

Mahomes hurt his ankle in week 1, the running game has been straight AIDS all year...
I'm with ya rabble. I thought maybe this year this o-line would be turning a corner for the better. Meaning finally we get some "blue collar nasty" going in the run game, running at will when needed and punching guys in the mouth pass blocking but it is not to be. Our o-line is just plain soft and not very athletic. If Pat goes on IR it will be their fault for sure. If I'm Andy I am rollin Mahomie out 80% of the time to avoid an injury due to a very soft interior o-line.
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Chiefshrink 09:10 PM 10-09-2019
Originally Posted by DTVietnam:
Damien should be the man..rewatch the last few weeks and playoffs of last season..hes a tough runner. . best receiving back on the team and can score form anywhere. .

but with this offense now he can never get in a rhythm
when your o-line is sputtering rhythm is non-existent.
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Megatron96 09:23 PM 10-09-2019
Originally Posted by BWillie:
You are being results oriented again. There is always X percent of something happening.

Shit happens. All you can do is make the best decisions as possible. You can make the best decision and still lose.
Winning is a result.
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Megatron96 05:24 PM 10-10-2019
Here's the thing about throwing every down. The defense will start to expect it. Then they start to anticipate the snap and just pinning their ears back and coming for the QB. Does that sound like a recipe for success with our current issues?

You need to run the ball effectively for a significant percentage of downs (not 5%, or 10%, or even 15%, but more like 25% at a minimum) or the defense will just come hot on every down. But the key is effectively. Or efficiently, if that makes more sense. Enough to put a good-sized seed of doubt in the minds of the defense and the DC.

I don't know how doubt is expressed in analytics, but if you can show me how it does, I'd be a lot more willing to listen.
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WhiteWhale 05:34 PM 10-10-2019
No running game means no play action game.

If all you do is drop back pass, the defense will get after you. It makes the OL's pass protection job near impossible. Incompletions also make it easier for the opposing team to control the clock and the game.

This isn't a new discovery. The NFL is harder than the Big 12. That's why nobody passes on 80% of their plays and wins consistently.
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jerryaldini 08:39 PM 10-10-2019
Originally Posted by BWillie:
Yes, in real practice I would probably advocate this team to run 10-15% of the time in the first half. The second half would depend on the teams lead, game dynamics, and conditions of the game. And what you said, if is very short yardage situation where it increases moving the chains but that is honestly not something you run into a bunch of times in a game. I think almost all teams run the ball on first and second down way way way way too much.

Even running 10% of the time keeps them honest ENOUGH. Coaches are going to gradually run less and less and less as we see the rules continue to gravitate to the benefit of the QB, WR, and TE.
Yeah running on early downs is bad. Only time I find myself disagreeing with Andy is when he runs a slow developing gadget in short yardage.

I remember back in the 80s-90s when every announcer said you have to "establish the running game". Made a little more sense then, but still way too much running. The wing T was funny.
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rabblerouser 09:25 PM 10-10-2019
Originally Posted by WhiteWhale:
No running game means no play action game.

If all you do is drop back pass, the defense will get after you. It makes the OL's pass protection job near impossible. Incompletions also make it easier for the opposing team to control the clock and the game.

This isn't a new discovery. The NFL is harder than the Big 12. That's why nobody passes on 80% of their plays and wins consistently.
This is accurate.
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BWillie 10:31 PM 10-10-2019
Originally Posted by WhiteWhale:
No running game means no play action game.

If all you do is drop back pass, the defense will get after you. It makes the OL's pass protection job near impossible. Incompletions also make it easier for the opposing team to control the clock and the game.

This isn't a new discovery. The NFL is harder than the Big 12. That's why nobody passes on 80% of their plays and wins consistently.
Explain to me then why even on say 3rd and 8 passing still yields almost twice as much yards on avg and far more points per play than than running the ball? There is no threat for play action. There is no threat to run the ball. Yet it is still effective.

Answer. Its by far the most effective way to score. Is it true that completely eliminating run plays in the 1st halves of games would make it more difficult to pass the ball? Sure. To a small degree. But that difference is much less than the productivity & effectiveness forgone by the typical amount of running plays NFL coaches utilize.
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chiefzilla1501 11:24 PM 10-10-2019
Originally Posted by DTVietnam:
Damien should be the man..rewatch the last few weeks and playoffs of last season..hes a tough runner. . best receiving back on the team and can score form anywhere. .

but with this offense now he can never get in a rhythm
I'm just not seeing it. Mccoy sees holes that Damien isn't. And shady is really good playing in cold weather.
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rabblerouser 07:24 AM 10-11-2019
Originally Posted by BWillie:
Explain to me then why even on say 3rd and 8 passing still yields almost twice as much yards on avg and far more points per play than than running the ball? There is no threat for play action. There is no threat to run the ball. Yet it is still effective.

Answer. Its by far the most effective way to score. Is it true that completely eliminating run plays in the 1st halves of games would make it more difficult to pass the ball? Sure. To a small degree. But that difference is much less than the productivity & effectiveness forgone by the typical amount of running plays NFL coaches utilize.
Because defenses know a drop back pass is coming and play coverage, you fucking moron.

Guess what else happens on 3rd down more often than on any other down?

SACKS.

You dipshit.
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rabblerouser 07:25 AM 10-11-2019
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
I'm just not seeing it. Mccoy sees holes that Damien isn't. And shady is really good playing in cold weather.
Accurate.

But I do have to say, we'll be really happy to have both in Dec and Jan if our oline can just slightly unfuck itself.
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