The time-travel stuff is always mindbending... mainly because, since we can't do it, we have no idea what the fuck would actually happen. This film seems to imply that you can't change the past, but if you go into the past and mess with it you're basically constructing an alternate timeline for that universe (but you can return to YOUR universe with no changes to it). A convenient way to make the time heist storyline work but makes no sense when you simply say "go put them back". For example, you knocked out Star-Lord and stole that stone... so what do you go back to, the point where you knocked him out and just say, "Hey, here's the stone"? And how do you put back the Soul Stone? (Although that would be a convenient way to get Black Widow back in the current time... "Hey, Red Skull, here's your stone back, now give us back the 'payment' we made.") The other problem with this idea of time-travel is that you can do whatever you want with no punishment (i.e. Gamora). Oh, look, Stark died... no biggie, just go back to the day BEFORE the big battle, and take that Stark forward. So now you're God. No one has to die. Go back and get Black Widow, Thor's mom, Vision, whoever you want. Some big bad villian shows up? Just go back and get 100 Iron Men, who gives a fuck about those alternate universes you create, those are their problems. [Reply]
Originally Posted by JD10367:
The time-travel stuff is always mindbending... mainly because, since we can't do it, we have no idea what the **** would actually happen. This film seems to imply that you can't change the past, but if you go into the past and mess with it you're basically constructing an alternate timeline for that universe (but you can return to YOUR universe with no changes to it). A convenient way to make the time heist storyline work but makes no sense when you simply say "go put them back". For example, you knocked out Star-Lord and stole that stone... so what do you go back to, the point where you knocked him out and just say, "Hey, here's the stone"? And how do you put back the Soul Stone? (Although that would be a convenient way to get Black Widow back in the current time... "Hey, Red Skull, here's your stone back, now give us back the 'payment' we made.") The other problem with this idea of time-travel is that you can do whatever you want with no punishment (i.e. Gamora). Oh, look, Stark died... no biggie, just go back to the day BEFORE the big battle, and take that Stark forward. So now you're God. No one has to die. Go back and get Black Widow, Thor's mom, Vision, whoever you want. Some big bad villian shows up? Just go back and get 100 Iron Men, who gives a **** about those alternate universes you create, those are their problems.
Originally Posted by JD10367:
The time-travel stuff is always mindbending... mainly because, since we can't do it, we have no idea what the **** would actually happen. This film seems to imply that you can't change the past, but if you go into the past and mess with it you're basically constructing an alternate timeline for that universe (but you can return to YOUR universe with no changes to it). A convenient way to make the time heist storyline work but makes no sense when you simply say "go put them back". For example, you knocked out Star-Lord and stole that stone... so what do you go back to, the point where you knocked him out and just say, "Hey, here's the stone"? And how do you put back the Soul Stone? (Although that would be a convenient way to get Black Widow back in the current time... "Hey, Red Skull, here's your stone back, now give us back the 'payment' we made.") The other problem with this idea of time-travel is that you can do whatever you want with no punishment (i.e. Gamora). Oh, look, Stark died... no biggie, just go back to the day BEFORE the big battle, and take that Stark forward. So now you're God. No one has to die. Go back and get Black Widow, Thor's mom, Vision, whoever you want. Some big bad villian shows up? Just go back and get 100 Iron Men, who gives a **** about those alternate universes you create, those are their problems.
In the comics Marvel made it clear that time travel simply creates alternate timelines and doesn't change the timeline you are from unless you got Doom or Kang level tech. [Reply]
Originally Posted by JD10367:
The time-travel stuff is always mindbending... mainly because, since we can't do it, we have no idea what the fuck would actually happen. This film seems to imply that you can't change the past, but if you go into the past and mess with it you're basically constructing an alternate timeline for that universe (but you can return to YOUR universe with no changes to it). A convenient way to make the time heist storyline work but makes no sense when you simply say "go put them back". For example, you knocked out Star-Lord and stole that stone... so what do you go back to, the point where you knocked him out and just say, "Hey, here's the stone"? And how do you put back the Soul Stone? (Although that would be a convenient way to get Black Widow back in the current time... "Hey, Red Skull, here's your stone back, now give us back the 'payment' we made.") The other problem with this idea of time-travel is that you can do whatever you want with no punishment (i.e. Gamora). Oh, look, Stark died... no biggie, just go back to the day BEFORE the big battle, and take that Stark forward. So now you're God. No one has to die. Go back and get Black Widow, Thor's mom, Vision, whoever you want. Some big bad villian shows up? Just go back and get 100 Iron Men, who gives a fuck about those alternate universes you create, those are their problems.
If you attempt to bypass or alter fixed points in the time stream then Time manifests itself and tries to bitch-slap you. Guys like Doctor Strange are good at dealing with stuff like this. [Reply]
Originally Posted by JD10367:
The time-travel stuff is always mindbending... mainly because, since we can't do it, we have no idea what the fuck would actually happen. This film seems to imply that you can't change the past, but if you go into the past and mess with it you're basically constructing an alternate timeline for that universe (but you can return to YOUR universe with no changes to it). A convenient way to make the time heist storyline work but makes no sense when you simply say "go put them back". For example, you knocked out Star-Lord and stole that stone... so what do you go back to, the point where you knocked him out and just say, "Hey, here's the stone"? And how do you put back the Soul Stone? (Although that would be a convenient way to get Black Widow back in the current time... "Hey, Red Skull, here's your stone back, now give us back the 'payment' we made.") The other problem with this idea of time-travel is that you can do whatever you want with no punishment (i.e. Gamora). Oh, look, Stark died... no biggie, just go back to the day BEFORE the big battle, and take that Stark forward. So now you're God. No one has to die. Go back and get Black Widow, Thor's mom, Vision, whoever you want. Some big bad villian shows up? Just go back and get 100 Iron Men, who gives a fuck about those alternate universes you create, those are their problems.
Yep. I loved the movie, but it's got its fair share of logical flaws. It's part of why I don't think that time travel will be used for much in other films (or at least not with regularity). I think they'll just say "We don't have any more Pym Particles. Shucks." and leave it alone. It'd just be too messy if they used it all the time. [Reply]
Time travel really shouldn't be used as a plot device. Russo brothers and whoever else were involved made one of the better efforts I've seen to use it but it just got too convoluted. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Deberg_1990:
Why wasn’t Tony more tore up over the death of Vision? Wasn’t he part of Tony or something? I don’t remem him even shedding one tear for him.
Seems like he was pretty fucking upset at everything after they first found him. Then the 5 year timeskip and he let go of resentment. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Superturtle:
Seems like he was pretty ****ing upset at everything after they first found him. Then the 5 year timeskip and he let go of resentment.
Being filthy rich and spending five years in a cabin fucking Gwyneth will mellow you out a bit. [Reply]
Jeeeeeeez. Yeah, they had the women stand for a group shot. So What? Does anyone whine about the fact the they do a group shot before every major battle that's fake as hell? Were people crying when they did the group shot of the two Avenger groups right before they fought in Civil War? It's a visual trope that is part of the genre. You guys are complaining about something that is a foundational part of superhero media. [Reply]
