Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud:
From all of the reports, Clark was concerned about Dorsey and had a cold relationship with him for at least 2 years. But, since the Chiefs were winning and drafting well, he overlooked the situation.
After Ballard was hired by the Colts, it became glaringly evident that Dorsey was a mess. He was unorganized, not a good communicator and made baffling decisions on his own. After the Maclin debacle, he pulled the trigger and fired Dorsey.
I think the entire situation is a Catch-22. Clark obviously wasn't fond of Dorsey the person or his management style but the Chiefs have had the type of success that he and the fans have yearned for since the early 90's. I'm sure it was difficult to reconcile his dislike of Dorsey while simultaneously, the Chiefs were experiencing great success.
Reportedly, Clark was able to overlook those issues until Ballard left, which exposed the dysfunction. In many ways, it sounds as if Ballard was covering Dorsey's tracks, per se. I'm just happy that Veach wasn't hired by Buffalo, as the Chiefs might be in real trouble after losing their #1, #2 and #3 guy.
All that said, people have accused (myself included) Lamar Hunt from having a "Hands Off" policy, as evidenced by a 15 year playoff drought and the final 10 years of Carl Peterson's tenure. Now, the Chiefs have a more "Hands On" owner and it appears that Clark will continue, if not expand, his role in the organization.
Based on the reports we've seen and the otherwise ill-advised timing of the move (with respect to Ballard's departure), I think this is the most plausible summary of what happened. We can only hope that Clark is willing to set a limit on his urge to control the team, though - I'd hate for him to become one of those owners that makes a habit of driving away talented front office people. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Deberg_1990:
I thought Dorsey was a 'Reid guy' from his Green Bay days? Andy was the guy who went out and recommended him to Hunt.
Why would he make a power play and screw him over?
I don't think he made a power play to be rid of Dorsey
It was a power play to give Veach the job after Hunt canned Dorsey. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Lzen:
I think Andy's problem in Philly was that he had dual roles as coach and GM. That's not the case here. Nor will it be with Veach.
That's what they keep telling us, but the same thing happened in Philly. They elevated one of Reid's people to GM, but Reid was still holding all the power, and the team never really contended again.
They brought in Jeff Garcia, AJ Feeley, Kevin Kolb, Michael Vick, Vince Young, Nick Foles, etc., trying to find someone to lead the offense, never developing a QB again.
They hit on Jackson and McCoy, but drafted few other players of any consequence. Maclin was the only first rounder that worked out for the rest of Reid's tenure.
I just think the alarm bells should be ringing when someone with a pretty good record in the draft is pushed out, leaving us with someone who has a mostly negative one in Reid, and someone in Veach who we are hoping may one day develop into what Dorsey already was.
Why did ownership feel this would strengthen the franchise and bring us closer to a Super Bowl? Anybody's guess. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Cochise:
That's what they keep telling us, but the same thing happened in Philly. They elevated one of Reid's people to GM, but Reid was still holding all the power, and the team never really contended again.
They brought in Jeff Garcia, AJ Feeley, Kevin Kolb, Michael Vick, Vince Young, Nick Foles, etc., trying to find someone to lead the offense, never developing a QB again.
They hit on Jackson and McCoy, but drafted few other players of any consequence. Maclin was the only first rounder that worked out for the rest of Reid's tenure.
I just think the alarm bells should be ringing when someone with a pretty good record in the draft is pushed out, leaving us with someone who has a mostly negative one in Reid, and someone in Veach who we are hoping may one day develop into what Dorsey already was.
Why did ownership feel this would strengthen the franchise and bring us closer to a Super Bowl? Anybody's guess.
More horsehit.
Reid took over the personnel reigns in 2001. The list of players that were drafted is long and impressive, from Brian Westbrook to LeSean McCoy, Fletcher Cox, DeSean Jackson and on and on and on.
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud:
Once again, I think it was a difficult reconciliation. As someone that as been put in that type of situation, I can sympathize.
Once again, Dorsey did a great job with talent but not so great with communication and management. That became ever more apparent after Ballard left and even more so after the botched releases of Howard and Maclin.
It is what it is. Now, it's time to move on.
The decision is too important for the stuff after Ballard to be last straw. If you are even close to last straw you make the audit before Ballard leaves.
Like you said though, it is what it is. At least Veach seems to have real potential. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud: Lamar Hunt had two GM's from 1960 until his death in 2006.
Since 2006, Clark Hunt has fired three GM's and hired a 4th.
Clark ain't fuckin' around.
I may be wrong but I think 4 Klosterman, Steadman, Schaaf and Peterson. Klosterman was hired away from LA Chargers of old AFL to run Hunts Dallas Texans' He along with Loyd Wells are the Architects of the SB winning Chiefs. They alone lured the likes of Taylor, Buchanan, Bell and Garrett away from the NFL. He left after our Super Bowl win to go back west. His parting shot when asked by the news media how he liked his stay in KC, I felt like I was in Purgatory it sure wasn't heaven nor was it hell. I remember my Dad hated trhe prick after that. [Reply]
Originally Posted by srvy:
I may be wrong but I think 4 Klosterman, Steadman, Schaaf and Peterson. Klosterman was hired away from LA Chargers of old AFL to run Hunts Dallas Texans' He along with Loyd Wells are the Architects of the SB winning Chiefs. They alone lured the likes of Taylor, Buchanan, Bell and Garrett away from the NFL. He left after our Super Bowl win to go back west. His parting shot when asked by the news media how he liked his stay in KC, I felt like I was in Purgatory it sure wasn't heaven nor was it hell. I remember my Dad hated trhe prick after that.
Willingness to act should not be mistaken for wisdom.
The Chiefs are now on their 4th GM in 10 years since Lamar Hunt passed. This is not one of the hallmarks of a well-run franchise.
Of the teams that have won the Super Bowl in seasons following Lamar Hunt's passing, here's how many GMs each team has hired in the last 10 years:
New England - 0
Denver - 2
Seattle - 1
Baltimore - 0
New York Giants - 1
Green Bay - 0
New Orleans - 0
Pittsburgh - 0
The Chiefs have had more GMs in the last 10 years than all the Super Bowl winners over that time have hired, combined.
Frequently changing executives is a mark of instability, not of prescient leadership. [Reply]
Originally Posted by raybec 4:
Prescient means the ability to know what might or will happen in the future, is how you meant to use it?
To lead with foresight, to lead with a plan that anticipates the future, rather than being reactionary. In this case, an ability to see who's going to perform well as a GM. The best run teams have this sort of leadership, which is why they do not change GMs very often.
Denver is the only team that's won the super bowl in the last 10 years that's had more than 2 GMs over that time. Clark has now had 4 GMs serve him in that span. (Not to mention 4 head coaches)
Hopefully he's got this one right, because churn at the top is not the sign of a successful organization. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud:
Except for the fact that the organization HAS seen more success with each successive regime change.
Clark Hunt didn't make a mistake in firing Peterson and Edwards. He didn't make a mistake in firing Haley, Pioli and Crennel.
It's yet to be seen if he made a mistake firing Dorsey but based on precedence, it's unlikely to be a mistake, either.
I agree completely. I was about to respond. But your response said just what I would have said. Now if Veach drafts like ElFraud and takes the Chiefs back to the gutter while Dorsey goes to another team and build a dynasty, then this was a horrible move. But we just have to let it play out. Hopefully, Veach will pick up where Dorsey left off and will continue to build a deep and dangerous team that will contend for the Superbowl year in and year out. [Reply]