Originally Posted by Bwana:
Once again, don't come in this thread with some kind of political agenda, or you will be shown the door. If you want to go that route, there is a thread about this in DC.
Originally Posted by Dartgod:
People, there is a lot of good information in this thread, let's try to keep the petty bickering to a minimum.
We all have varying opinions about the impact of this, the numbers, etc. We will all never agree with each other. But we can all keep it civil.
Thanks!
Click here for the original OP:
Spoiler!
Apparently the CoronaVirus can survive on a inanimate objects, such as door knobs, for 9 days.
California coronavirus case could be first spread within U.S. community, CDC says
By SOUMYA KARLAMANGLA, JACLYN COSGROVE
FEB. 26, 2020 8:04 PM
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is investigating what could be the first case of novel coronavirus in the United States involving a patient in California who neither recently traveled out of the country nor was in contact with someone who did.
“At this time, the patient’s exposure is unknown. It’s possible this could be an instance of community spread of COVID-19, which would be the first time this has happened in the United States,” the CDC said in a statement. “Community spread means spread of an illness for which the source of infection is unknown. It’s also possible, however, that the patient may have been exposed to a returned traveler who was infected.”
The individual is a resident of Solano County and is receiving medical care in Sacramento County, according to the state Department of Public Health.
The CDC said the “case was detected through the U.S. public health system — picked up by astute clinicians.”
Officials at UC Davis Medical Center expanded on what the federal agency might have meant by that in an email sent Wednesday, as reported by the Davis Enterprise newspaper.
The patient arrived at UC Davis Medical Center from another hospital Feb. 19 and “had already been intubated, was on a ventilator, and given droplet protection orders because of an undiagnosed and suspected viral condition,” according to an email sent by UC Davis officials that was obtained by the Davis Enterprise.
The staff at UC Davis requested COVID-19 testing by the CDC, but because the patient didn’t fit the CDC’s existing criteria for the virus, a test wasn’t immediately administered, according to the email. The CDC then ordered the test Sunday, and results were announced Wednesday. Hospital administrators reportedly said in the email that despite these issues, there has been minimal exposure at the hospital because of safety protocols they have in place.
A UC Davis Health spokesperson declined Wednesday evening to share the email with The Times.
Since Feb. 2, more than 8,400 returning travelers from China have entered California, according to the state health department. They have been advised to self-quarantine for 14 days and limit interactions with others as much as possible, officials said.
“This is a new virus, and while we are still learning about it, there is a lot we already know,” Dr. Sonia Angell, director of the California Department of Public Health, said in a statement. “We have been anticipating the potential for such a case in the U.S., and given our close familial, social and business relationships with China, it is not unexpected that the first case in the U.S. would be in California.”
It is not clear how the person became infected, but public health workers could not identify any contacts with people who had traveled to China or other areas where the virus is widespread. That raises concern that the virus is spreading in the United States, creating a challenge for public health officials, experts say.
“It’s the first signal that we could be having silent transmission in the community,” said Lawrence Gostin, director of the World Health Organization Collaborating Center on National and Global Health Law. “It probably means there are many more cases out there, and it probably means this individual has infected others, and now it’s a race to try to find out who that person has infected.”
On Tuesday, the CDC offered its most serious warning to date that the United States should expect and prepare for the coronavirus to become a more widespread health issue.
“Ultimately, we expect we will see coronavirus spread in this country,” said Nancy Messonnier, director of the CDC’s National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases. “It’s not so much a question of if, but a question of when.”
According to the CDC’s latest count Wednesday morning, 59 U.S. residents have tested positive for the new strain of coronavirus — 42 of whom are repatriated citizens from a Diamond Princess cruise. That number has grown by two since Messonnier’s last count Tuesday, although the CDC was not immediately available to offer details on the additional cases.
More than 82,000 cases of coronavirus have been reported globally, and more than 2,700 people have died, with the majority in mainland China, the epicenter of the outbreak.
But public health leaders have repeatedly reminded residents that the health risk from the novel coronavirus to the general public remains low.
“While COVID-19 has a high transmission rate, it has a low mortality rate,” the state Department of Public Health said in a statement Wednesday. “From the international data we have, of those who have tested positive for COVID-19, approximately 80% do not exhibit symptoms that would require hospitalization. There have been no confirmed deaths related to COVID-19 in the United States to date.”
CDC officials have also warned that although the virus is likely to spread in U.S. communities, the flu still poses a greater risk.
Gostin said the news of potential silent transmission does not eliminate the possibility of containing the virus in the U.S. and preventing an outbreak.
“There are few enough cases that we should at least try,” he said. “Most of us are not optimistic that that will be successful, but we’re still in the position to try.”
Originally Posted by Donger:
The details of a study that found the novel coronavirus could remain on contaminated plastic and stainless steel surfaces for up to three days has been published in the New England Journal of Medicine as a correspondence to the editor.
The study — funded by the National Institutes of Health — was posted online last week.
For the study, researchers compared the "surface stability" of the novel coronavirus with that of the SARS-CoV-1 virus, which sparked the SARS epidemic that started in 2002.
The researchers found that the novel coronavirus could be detected on...
Copper for up to four hours
Cardboard for up to 24 hours
Plastic and stainless steel for up to 72 hours.
Also, the coronavirus could linger in aerosols — the suspension of tiny particles or droplets in the air — for up to three hours, according to the study.
And even that is WAY down from where they were a week ago. People were saying stainless and plastics for a week or longer.
Additionally, there's a big distinction between 'detectable' and 'viable'. From what I've read, the viability of the virus on any surface diminishes exponentially with every passing hour.
So while a swab and a test may show it's on there, it could be extremely weak. You touch something someone sneezed on 24 hours later and you may come in contact with the virus, but it may not 'transmit' to you. And even if it transmits to you, it may not get into your system because it's weakened. And if it gets into your system it may just get barred at the gate and wiped out before you notice as much as a tickle in your throat.
There are often silver linings in all this information. I mean lord, 3 weeks ago this was an airborne virus w/ a 2 week incubation period and a week long viability timeline with an 8% mortality rate.
Compare that with where we are now - incubation is a fraction of what we believed. Viability is almost certainly as well. It isn't airborn unless aerosolized (so far less likely to be spread by the asymptomatic). It's overall mortality rate is far lower than we thought it would be and more critically it focuses on a specific demographic that we can more thoroughly protect.
All anyone wants to talk about is how awful this thing is when every single bit of news we've seen on it for a week or more is that it isn't nearly the monster it initially surfaced as. So we don't have to scorch the fucking earth here, fellas. [Reply]
I’m not sure how they could coordinate giving a thousand dollars to everyone. It seems as if there would need to be some kind of criteria to be able to claim something like that. I am not going to stop working or getting paid, so I shouldn’t qualify for it. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
And even that is WAY down from where they were a week ago. People were saying stainless and plastics for a week or longer.
Additionally, there's a big distinction between 'detectable' and 'viable'. From what I've read, the viability of the virus on any surface diminishes exponentially with every passing hour.
So while a swab and a test may show it's on there, it could be extremely weak. You touch something someone sneezed on 24 hours later and you may come in contact with the virus, but it may not 'transmit' to you. And even if it transmits to you, it may not get into your system because it's weakened. And if it gets into your system it may just get barred at the gate and wiped out before you notice as much as a tickle in your throat.
There are often silver linings in all this information. I mean lord, 3 weeks ago this was an airborne virus w/ a 2 week incubation period and a week long viability timeline with an 8% mortality rate.
Compare that with where we are now - incubation is a fraction of what we believed. Viability is almost certainly as well. It isn't airborn unless aerosolized (so far less likely to be spread by the asymptomatic). It's overall mortality rate is far lower than we thought it would be and more critically it focuses on a specific demographic that we can more thoroughly protect.
All anyone wants to talk about is how awful this thing is when every single bit of news we've seen on it for a week or more is that it isn't nearly the monster it initially surfaced as. So we don't have to scorch the ****ing earth here, fellas.
Yes, it's in the OP. Nine days on door knobs. Here's the summary:
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
If shit hits the fan, the mortgage (and rent) can wait.
Because if your landlord contacts the sheriff to toss you out, the sheriff is gonna tell him to **** off. Moreover, most courts are closed anyway so how's your landlord going to get the eviction order anyway?
And banks don't want to be in the business of real-estate. If you miss this month's mortgage, they AIN'T gonna foreclose. Not if 1/2 the country is defaulting. Hell, aren't most mortgages held by Fanny and Freddy these days anyway? The fed most assuredly isn't calling them due...
That's why some of these concerns are overblown - the real practical impact will be minimal. Worrying about "how are people gonna make their rent!!?!" is missing the mark. The real worry is "how are people gonna have jobs to go back to in 90 days?"
This plan is missing the problem completely.
This is an intelligent post from an intelligent Planeteer.
Mr. DJ's left nut is right to compare this situation to war. When we were "really" at war (not counting "military actions", but real, actual, honest-to-goodness, declared war), the country rallied. Let's think WWII ...
Citizens sacrificed time and material goods and comfort. Celebrities raised morale and hope. Women worked their asses off making airplanes and bombs and tires. Prices and wages were temporarily controlled. Fuel was rationed and driving was curtailed. Nursing became an attractive occupation.
I could go on and on.
Although I don't expect all those things to happen quickly (or probably ever), some of them will.
What didn't happen was that few people sabotaged others for sheer, brazen profit. The stock market was extremely volatile (as could be well expected), but price gouging wasn't "normal" or acceptable and those that attempted it were treated harshly. Landlords and lenders held a lot of paper during that time because the alternative was worse for everyone and they recognized that fact. In summary, we could expect rational people to behave rationally.
My hope is that sanity will prevail and we get our sh*t together for the common good.
PS: If our fabulously talented mods feel this post is overly "political", let me know and I'll happily delete.
Hopefully they institute something kind of fund that can sit in a pot so that if this happens again they can freeze all commerce and give those who need help during such a freeze some assistance. Letting politicians figure out what’s good for us isn’t going to be a pretty exercise. [Reply]
Originally Posted by FAX:
This is an intelligent post from an intelligent Planeteer.
Mr. DJ's left nut is right to compare this situation to war. When we were "really" at war (not counting "military actions", but real, actual, honest-to-goodness, declared war), the country rallied. Let's think WWII ...
Citizens sacrificed time and material goods and comfort. Celebrities raised morale and hope. Women worked their asses off making airplanes and bombs and tires. Prices and wages were temporarily controlled. Fuel was rationed and driving was curtailed. Nursing became an attractive occupation.
I could go on and on.
Although I don't expect all those things to happen quickly (or probably ever), some of them will.
What didn't happen was that few people sabotaged others for sheer, brazen profit. The stock market was extremely volatile (as could be well expected), but price gouging wasn't "normal" or acceptable and those that attempted it were treated harshly. Landlords and lenders held a lot of paper during that time because the alternative was worse for everyone and they recognized that fact. In summary, we could expect rational people to behave rationally.
My hope is that sanity will prevail and we get our sh*t together for the common good.
PS: If our fabulously talented mods feel this post is overly "political", let me know and I'll happily delete.
FAX
The difference being, of course, we can't see this enemy. It isn't malicious. You can't shoot it, or bomb it. All you can do is try to do what you can not to get it. I think that's hard for some people. Perhaps many people. [Reply]