But you also had emerging friendships and redemption arcs. You had happy characters that seemingly have bright futures ahead of them. You had cute bubbly little robots that make outstanding toys and weren't shot a dozen times before exploding and dying.

It wasn't as oppressively dour.

Again, this movie may as well have been Blackhawk Down with the tone it adopted.
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Everything you f-ng say is perfectly on-point. Whether you are talking football or star wars, or whatever. It's G-damn annoying.

:-)
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The biggest problem with Episode VII was that it was a carbon copy of Episode IV. There was no originality, nothing new, just a direct copy with better actors, direction, cinematography and VFX.

But here's the truth: There will never, ever be another film like the original Star Wars film. No one had seen anything like it before on the big screen with space battles and planet destroying space stations and light sabers. The farm boy, princess, smuggler, walking carpet and Merlin the Magician all working together towards a common goal and once it was completed, everyone receives a medal. Every kid loved it, adults loved it was a generational movie unlike anything the world had seen at that point. But it all changed with Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back.

George Lucas made The Phantom Menace for kids. It featured an 8 year old actor, a dopey frog, a couple of droids and old school Jedi Knights. It featured swashbuckling action, the best lightsaber duel ever, a scary bad guy in Darth Maul and Princess Leia's mom kicking all the ass that we'd see Leia do 30 years later. Kids loved it!

Adults hated it. The internet hated it. People complained it "ruined their childhood". Lucas tried to course-correct with the next two films but they weren't much more appealing. Star Wars was essentially dead in the water. The Clone Wars animated series, developed by George Lucas, was far closer to what people of certain age expected in a Star Wars property but it hasn't reached everyone. Rebels is treading dangerously close to Rogue One, in terms of sacrifice, destruction, etc. (and they're going to have a difficult time resolving the characters because none of them appear in the OT).

But the bottom line is that The Empire Strikes Back changed everything. Every director and writer hired by Lucasfilm is a huge fan, whether it's Abrams or Johnson or Trevorrow or Phil Lord & Chris Miller. They were HUGE fans of the OT but the film that stands out among all of them is Empire. Empire is dark and menacing, Vader is far more evil than in ANH and he nearly destroys his own son. That's some heavy shit.

Now, we're seeing that Empire influence in Rogue One and Episode VII. Lots of death, lots of destruction, new and evil characters to match Vader and the Emperor. And from all reports, including Adam Driver and Larry Kasdan, Episode VIII is even darker in tone than VII and darker than Empire. And hell, that was before the untimely death of Carrie Fisher.

I think the stand alone Han Solo movie has a chance to be lighter in tone and closer to the original film, because the character himself is lighter in tone. And Phil Lord & Chris Miller are absurdly funny (Son of Zorn is the weirdest, most absurd TV show I've ever seen and I love it).

But as for the Episodes and other stand alone films, I'd expect the tone to be similar to Episode VII and Rogue One because that's what adults want to see.

The children can just tag along.
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And as I noted - I hope you're wrong.

Even Carrie Fisher referred to the Star Wars universe as every little boys dream. There's simply too much awe and wonder in the Star Wars universe for me to be okay with the kids 'tagging along'.

There's a place somewhere between Menace and Rogue One. It's not even that narrow of a landing strip.

That place should be the target. If you want a war epic, go see Dunkirk.
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I'm expecting Indiana Jones Innnnnn Spaaaaaaaaacccce!
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Considering how dark Rebels has gotten, and it being an animated series on a Disney kids channel, I don't know how hopeful I'd be.

I like the idea of them being able to create multiple mood/tone settings through the main series and the side stories. It has helped keep the MCU from getting to stagnant, and should be possible here.
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I fully support the concept and principle of the stand alone movies being the place where writers, directors, and actors are allowed to venture outside of and beyond the usual paradigm of SW storytelling and presentation.
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I get it, man, but it doesn't look like it's going that way. Just look at the upcoming director's resumes:

Rian Johnson: Looper, Brick (R)
Colin Trevorrow: Jurassic World (PG-13)

If KK had hired Speilberg or Zemeckis, I'd probably agree that the films would trend back towards ANH but with Johnson and Trevorrow, I'm expecting them to get much, much darker.

Now, that doesn't mean either film will be without a sense of humor here or there but that for the most part, they're going to be very adult in presentation and theme.
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Alot of great discussion and I went to see RO last week, didn't read anything about it, no spoilers etc and wow I thought it was the best SW movie since Empire and moved the series back to the way IMVHO it was meant to be. To me this was the true prequel and if there was a way for Disney to delete those 3 prequels and act like they never existed it would be great.

For DJ and others that maybe didn't like the adult tone, I know we are all adults now but I would encourage to go back and watch IV and I think you would see that it was more of an adult film than maybe you realize. It had plenty of adult themes even though it was made in 1977 where they didn't make alot of movies with gritty realism. If IV was made today I think it would more align with Rogue one than Guardians of the Galaxy.

As kid growing up in that era and that had all the toys (still do if anyone wants to buy them) I always thought Empire was the best even as a kid. I hope SW continues with more of what NH\Empire\RO did and much less of the other ones. The Force Awakens was complete crap.
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I've decided that my favorite trilogy is Rogue One, A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back.

:-)
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Finally saw it. I thought it was awesome. Loved the visual and sound effects. I didn't particularly care for the characters but when they all started being killed off in the end I felt sad- I guess I sympathize with the cause.

That Vader scene was so fucking epic. I nearly jizzed. I'd pay full price of admission to see that alone.
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I'll spoiler this just in case somebody hasn't seen it and wants to see it in the theater....


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Finally got to see it yesterday and it was outstanding. Great film.

Good conversation in here guys. I guess I hadn't thought about just how dark each film was. As far as it being dark, I think there may be some repreaves throughout. I'd anticipate that, from a strategy standpoint they are going to make different kinds of films. Much like Daredevil and GotG are in the same universe so will be some lighter stuff.

I don't know how it will play, but I'd guess that's where they are going.
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hell yeah.
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