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ROYC75 04:26 PM 08-12-2014
Discussion: All things Broncos.
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Reerun_KC 01:50 PM 10-20-2015
When will Denver's dominance over the chiefs end? I feel like they are treating us the same way we treated the Raiders in the 90's...
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Mile High Mania 08:45 PM 10-20-2015
Originally Posted by ThaVirus:
Those comparisons are pretty disingenuous. First, you're comparing TD's "prime" years to the other guy's first four, which aren't necessarily the other guy's primes. Sanders, for example, only averaged 4.7 in his first four seasons, but retired with a 5.0 average. He clearly got better with time.

Second, you've compared a few guys that played when full seasons only amounted to 12 and 14 games.

Finally, you neglect to mention the shit ton of carries TD saw in those first four seasons, which may or may not have lead to his career's early end. He had more carries in those first four years than any other back had besides ED. It's no surprise that ED put up better numbers.

Davis had a nice little four year stretch, but so have a ton of backs. Priest Holmes, Shaun Alexander, Chris Johnson, etc. He also was afforded the opportunity to play in a running back's wet dream scheme-wise while sharing a backfield with a future HOF QB. What's most impressive about TD's career is his 2,000 season and his playoff production. That shit was off the charts.

... But he's not a legend like the other guys.
Tap the brake.

http://a.espncdn.com/nfl/news/1999/1003/95042.html

Davis tore two knee ligaments in his knee making a tackle thanks to a Griese INT. It had nothing to do with carries or workload.

So, who knows what he could have done with more time and being healthy.

It's a fun debate, but I think the point the brain dead one was trying to make is that TD had a phenomenal start to his career, in comparison to the other greats listed.

TD had maybe 80 more attempts in 4 years that Emmitt did... nothing too crazy there. Just saying, it wasn't the workload that led to his downfall. It was Griese.
[Reply]
ThaVirus 08:52 PM 10-20-2015
Originally Posted by Mile High Mania:
Tap the brake.



http://a.espncdn.com/nfl/news/1999/1003/95042.html



Davis tore two knee ligaments in his knee making a tackle thanks to a Griese INT. It had nothing to do with carries or workload.



So, who knows what he could have done with more time and being healthy.



It's a fun debate, but I think the point the brain dead one was trying to make is that TD had a phenomenal start to his career, in comparison to the other greats listed.



TD had maybe 80 more attempts in 4 years that Emmitt did... nothing too crazy there. Just saying, it wasn't the workload that led to his downfall. It was Griese.

I make that same argument for Jamaal Charles all the time so I'll accept it. It was just an unfortunate event, as most ACL injuries are...

Still, there's no way of telling if he'd have been able to produce at that level consistently. He had a great start in one of the best situations a RB could ever ask for. He wasn't a transcendent or generational talent. He was just really good.

Check the stats from the next season prior to the tear, barely averaged 3 YPC without Elway. It's possible the workload was already affecting his production.
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New World Order 10:46 PM 10-20-2015
Originally Posted by manchambo:
You're just talking out your ass now.

More carries means more yards.

Does it not?

1998- Terrelle Davis- 397 carries 2008 yds 5.1 ypc

2000- Mike Anderson- 297 carries 1487 yards 5.0 ypc

2002- Clinton Portis 273 carries 1508 5.5 ypc

And there were a few other 1000 yard backs who weren't good that did well under Shanahan.

They also weren't playing with an elite qb like Elway. It's the system not the back for the 100th time.

There you go dopey.
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ThaVirus 11:14 PM 10-20-2015
KnowMo's boy Tatum Bell
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Mile High Mania 06:15 AM 10-21-2015
Originally Posted by ThaVirus:
I make that same argument for Jamaal Charles all the time so I'll accept it. It was just an unfortunate event, as most ACL injuries are...

Still, there's no way of telling if he'd have been able to produce at that level consistently. He had a great start in one of the best situations a RB could ever ask for. He wasn't a transcendent or generational talent. He was just really good.

Check the stats from the next season prior to the tear, barely averaged 3 YPC without Elway. It's possible the workload was already affecting his production.
What year are you referring to? TD started with Elway and the year after Elway retired (99), he tore his knee on that Griese INT. 1995 was his rookie year and 1998 was his 2k rushing year. After that, Elway was gone and he was injured. He tried coming back in 2000-2001, but it just wasn't happening.

And, I think it's more than just him being really good. Yes, there were other backs that came in and got 1,000 yards in that system, but they weren't as dynamic and overall productive as TD.
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BossChief 06:32 AM 10-21-2015
Holmes was better after a hip surgery and an acl tear than Davis was completely healthy.

Neither are HOF quality backs IMO.

Gotta have career longevity.
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Mile High Mania 06:34 AM 10-21-2015
Originally Posted by BossChief:
Holmes was better after a hip surgery and an acl tear than Davis was completely healthy.

Neither are HOF quality backs IMO.

Gotta have career longevity.
Holmes was a great player as well... not sure that I'd go as far as saying he was better than Davis with one leg tied behind his back, but ok.

Very gifted runner and pass catcher. Plus, Larry Johnson stepped in with 1700 yard rushing efforts and lots of catches... products of the system, really. :-)
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Tombstone RJ 08:27 AM 10-21-2015
Originally Posted by BossChief:
Holmes was better after a hip surgery and an acl tear than Davis was completely healthy.

Neither are HOF quality backs IMO.

Gotta have career longevity.
TD has an NFL MVP, a SB MVP and a 2000 yard rushing season. Yah, he is HoF worthy.
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ThaVirus 09:27 AM 10-21-2015
Originally Posted by Mile High Mania:
What year are you referring to? TD started with Elway and the year after Elway retired (99), he tore his knee on that Griese INT. 1995 was his rookie year and 1998 was his 2k rushing year. After that, Elway was gone and he was injured. He tried coming back in 2000-2001, but it just wasn't happening.



And, I think it's more than just him being really good. Yes, there were other backs that came in and got 1,000 yards in that system, but they weren't as dynamic and overall productive as TD.

The article that you posted, bro. The year after Elway retired Davis averaged barely over 3 YPC. He only lasted a couple games but I'd say there was a good chance he was headed for a down year after 400+ carries from the previous season.

Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson, Reuben Droughns, Tatum Bell. Those guys are akin to a bag of smashed assholes and yet they were all 1,000 yard backs.
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Garcia Bronco 09:29 AM 10-21-2015
At no time was Priest Holmes a better, more feared, dominating running back than Davis. And that's being fair about it.
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Garcia Bronco 09:31 AM 10-21-2015
Originally Posted by ThaVirus:

Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson, Reuben Droughns, Tatum Bell. Those guys are akin to a bag of smashed assholes and yet they were all 1,000 yard backs.
Mike Anderson was a great back. Clinton Portis was a phenom....but none of them were as good as the kid from San Diego.
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ThaVirus 09:38 AM 10-21-2015
Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco:
Mike Anderson was a great back. Clinton Portis was a phenom....but none of them were as good as the kid from San Diego.

Portis averaged 5.5 YPC in his two seasons in Denver.

He never averaged more than 4.3 in a season after being traded to Washington.

A phenom he was not...
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Garcia Bronco 09:42 AM 10-21-2015
Originally Posted by ThaVirus:
Portis averaged 5.5 YPC in his two seasons in Denver.

He never averaged more than 4.3 in a season after being traded to Washington.

A phenom he was not...
You didn't watch him in college then, he was amazing. I can't remember which team but he ran for something like 5 TDs one day...busted out a championship belt and everything. The problem when he went to Washington is he got paid....which is why we traded him. Definitely the most athletic back in the AFC West until Charles came along.
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ThaVirus 09:46 AM 10-21-2015
Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco:
At no time was Priest Holmes a better, more feared, dominating running back than Davis. And that's being fair about it.

I wouldn't be so sure. I'd put Priest's 2001-2004 up against any other back's 4-year stretch for my money.

He was a TD machine. He was good for nearly 700 receiving yards during his prime years. He had more career carries than Terrell Davis and yet fumbled the ball less.
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